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unmerged(29487)

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May 22, 2004
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Hungary:bauxite, and small production of aluminium

China: Tungsten largest production in the world 10737 tons in 1938

Spain:Tungsten 162 tons in 1938

Hoi india: Tungsten 3872 tons in 1938

Chile: copper ore ( 2nd largest production in world, in late 30 )

USA: Was the largest productor in almost al ironworks of metals.

This is the examples, of may sources.
I dont wont, the production, mining metals in world. I need countries, with small production of stell in mine interpretation of HOI. Mine english is wery weak, sorry.
 

Halibutt

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Ok, Zagłębiaczek aka Zagłębiak asked me to translate the following:

  • Gentlemen, please test the file. The first thing to look for is the countries that have not enough resources, especially all kinds of metal
  • The coal in Indochina is already there, just go and check for yourself
  • Adding the copper to the US will only make the gap between them and the other countries bigger. The same goes to Germany and UK: Zagłębiaczek said he was kind of generous when dealing with their production and what they got already is more than enough.
  • Engineer, here's a link for you
Cheers
 

Crazyhorse

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Bauxite:

Hungary - 600.000 tons
Yugoslavia - 350.000 tons
France - 450.000 tons
Dutch east indies - 200.000 tons
Dutch west indies - 400.000 tons (Huge increase between 1938 and 1943 to 1.600.000 tons)

Excellent link! You wouldn't happen to know anothe rone for coal and rubber? :D
 
Feb 24, 2003
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Hi, this is what I've been using. Comments at the bottom.

Austria: Horn: 9 Oil, Vienna: 7 Oil, Graz: 10 Oil: New fields were brought on during the war. Source US Strategic Bombing Survey
Canada: Fort George: 30 Rubber: Bauxite
Chile: Antofagasta: 35 Rubber: Phosphates
France: Tafilelt: 30 Rubber: Phosphates
Hungary: Debrechen: 10 Rubber: Bauxite
Jamaica: Strike local Bauxite here, the mines were post-war development.
Mexico: Hermosilla: 20 Steel & 5 Rubber: Copper & precious metals
Portugal: Porto: 18 Rubber: Tungsten
Spain: Villacisneros: 25 Rubber: Phosphates, Burgos: 20 Rubber: Tungsten
USA: Cheyenne, Helena, Boise, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas: 2 Rubber each (alloy metals, precious metals and uranium), Denver: 10 Rubber rubber (alloy metals and precious metals), Miami: 50 rubber (phosphates), Phoenix: 50 steel and 10 rubber (copper and precious metals)
USSR: Magadan: 10 Rubber: Komsomoltsk na-Amure & Tahe: 5 rubber each: Bologur, Norilsk, Dalnegorsk, Birobidzjan, and Borzja 2 rubber each (alloy metals and precious metals)

Comments:
- General & overarching comment is we have pretty hard conversions for the basic materials. However, how many tons of tungsten or bauxite or molybdenum = 1 ton of rubber and the rest of the conversions are pretty soft.
- This makes the USA and USSR stronger with some rubber. That is an adverse play balance effect. However, it puts resources in what had been mostly empty provinces so if the game gets into those regions, there is an extra and historical reason to be fighting there instead of just occupying territory. That's a plus.
- Better research makes for better numbers. Some of the data above suggests that the bauxite numbers ought to be re-balanced. Some brief googling I did this morning showed that some Bauxite was mined in metropolitan France, but then deposits in French Guinea were found. I don't know when those were exploited.
- Phosphates mostly go into fertilizer which is about as far from Rubber on the industrial tree as you can get, but it is critical for artificial fertilizers which keep the yield up per acre. All the rubber in the world isn't any good if you don't have enough to eat.

Thanks for the US metals link. This is a good breakdown for the 1930s. I've found other data tracking coal, oil, and other macro statistics that paint a picture where the Recession of '38 dramatically depressed US economic activity and once re-armament took off in 1941, the raw material production statistics in the US rose by 20% to 50% to support the massive GDP increases that went along with the war effort. In the specific case of the Arizona copper industry, it peaked just before the Depression and took a dramatic tumble in the 1930s. The war then brought new production highs before the shift to lower cost, non-domestic sources started to erode the industry in the 1950s.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(29487)

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May 22, 2004
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Engineer said:
- General & overarching comment is we have pretty hard conversions for the basic materials. However, how many tons of tungsten or bauxite or molybdenum = 1 ton of rubber and the rest of the conversions are pretty soft.

This means, China gets 10000 rubber for tungsten, ok.
 
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Zagłębiak said:
This means, China gets 10000 rubber for tungsten, ok.

Well, actually no. To put an overall strategy in place I was thinking more along these lines:

1) The supplemental resources that would get counted as rubber should increase the overall amount of rubber by no more than 20% to 25% so we don't flood the world with rubber.

2) We need to understand what those supplemental resources are. We've been talking about bauxite, precious metals, phosphates, tungsten, other alloy metals (like chromium, molybdenum, etc.), and uranium. Are there others?

3) We need to divide the new "rubber" points amongst those different resources. For example, 20% new "rubber" gets allocated at 5% bauxite, 2% precious metals, 2% phosphates, 5% tungsten, 5% alloy metals, and 1% uranium. That's one proposal, what does the community think best?

4) We then can derive a ratio of material production to rubber (so many tons of mineral x = 1 point of rubber) and match that up with the production data to get a figure for each province.

5) We also need to set a copper to steel ratio and a tin to steel ratio and let the smaller countries get some extra steel to try and make them more robust with respect to an economic collapse.
 

Halibutt

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Gentlemen, two things you might want to bear in mind:
  • Zagłebiaczek uses yearly ammounts, so the new additions do not look that drastic.
  • The coal and steel mod did not include rubber modifications per se. All the rubber added is just a way of representing different metals. It did not alter or modify the rubber production in different parts of the world. Adding rubber to the mod would be a really huge ammount of work and I'm not sure anyone can handle it right now.
Cheers
 
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Rubber Additions

Yes, I've just scratched the surface and clearly getting enough data to do it right will take a lot of hours.

Personally, I would favor adding extra "rubber" instead of substituting some fraction of the existing rubber with the other materials. Maybe it's just me, but I usually find myself coming up a bit short compared to the historical production figures on most of the majors.

Resource wise, I've been poking around in the USGS data. Some factoids:
- By 1944, domestic Bauxite production exceeded 2,000,000 tons per year.
- The USA & French Guinea accounted for 70% of world Bauxite production by the end of the war. Canada provided much of the rest.
- The USA was mining several thousand tons of tungsten a year and importing double that for its metallurgical applications. The principal states were where the mines were located included Colorado, Idaho, California (Sacramento province), and Nevada.
 

Semi-Lobster

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JRaup said:
OK, going off of memory here (and someone correct me where I err please). IIRC, the industrial base in Vietnam was mainly in the Hanoi/Haiphong area, with moderate build ups around Da Nang and Saigon. So, 2-3 in Hanoi/Haiphong, 1-2 in Da Nang and Saigon. Main resource production was Iron/Coal for Tonkin region, tin for Annam/Central Highlands, and Rice (with some rubber) in Cochin. Cambodia was the main rubber producer, especially along the Mekong river (ease of access to plantations/transport to Saigon). Laos was mainly minor tin and iron mines, though some rubber just north of Cambodia isn't unreasonable. So, as a thought, give the Tonkinese provinces Steel and coal (10-15 of each), the central Annamese province 5-10 Steel, and probably Ranch Gia and Saigon 5 rubber each. Boost the Cambodian rubber provinces with those taken away from Vietnam. Give Laos 5-10 Steel, and 2-5 rubber.

So is anybody going to do anything about this?
 

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Semi-Lobster said:
So is anybody going to do anything about this?

MOD the province.csv file and post it on the WIKI.
:D
 

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Post here in simple format:

Province ID and name
Current resource value
Wanted resource value
Justification

For example:
4 (Vancouver)
80 coal
120 coal
Vancouver production was 20% higher than XYZ production which is 100 in game