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Szun

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ok I didnt read all of the tread, I only want to add soemthing I noticed playing SU.

Germany was allied with slovakia when at war with poland.
Slovakia ocupied Lwow and SU didnt get it after the rippentrop plan-share for SU triggered. Slovakia still had it it. Intended?
 

Halibutt

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Re: Re: Defense of Major Cities and Death of Stalin

Originally posted by jkkelley
Although I think the next seat of government, and where much of it operated from, was actually Kubiyshev. (If Vladimir Rezun is to be believed, anyway.)

jkk
Right. All sources I know confirm Kuibyshev. Khrushchev included.
Cheers
 

Steel

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Originally posted by Szun
ok I didnt read all of the tread, I only want to add soemthing I noticed playing SU.

Germany was allied with slovakia when at war with poland.
Slovakia ocupied Lwow and SU didnt get it after the rippentrop plan-share for SU triggered. Slovakia still had it it. Intended?

Thanks for the feedback. It's a known issue that exists both in vanilla HoI and in C.O.R.E. and it's on the to-do list for fixing.
 

Mortu

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Re: Re: Defense of Major Cities and Death of Stalin

Originally posted by jkkelley
Although I think the next seat of government, and where much of it operated from, was actually Kubiyshev. (If Vladimir Rezun is to be believed, anyway.)

jkk

Mr. Rezun is not to be believed. He has made too many false statements in his books, for any of them to be trusted without cross-referencing the sources.
 

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Re: Defense of Major Cities and Death of Stalin

Originally posted by vertinox
One thing I would like to see as a USSR event is the choice Stalin made about evacuating Moscow as Germany was at the gates of the city.


Done in 0.6. And Stalin's demise is covered by New Order East events. :D
 

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Re: Re: Re: Defense of Major Cities and Death of Stalin

Originally posted by Mortu
Mr. Rezun is not to be believed. He has made too many false statements in his books, for any of them to be trusted without cross-referencing the sources.

In this particular case we have much more sources then only Rezun's books. Kuybyshev was prepared for the alternative capital, even some less important offices were in fact evacuated.
 

String

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sorry to interfere but..

It was suggested i post it here

Imho there should be an event similar to the winter war starting event for Estonia also.. (and for latvia and lithuania also for that matter)
The russians demand military access and not getting it they declare war..
The date - 1939 28th september
if accepted estonia is inherited by soviet union on 21st july 1940
i guess there should be an option to resist too but war would be inevitable then .. Historically that was when the communists did a coup in estonia with the support of about 140000 soviet troops stationed in estonia supporting them .. :(

triggers should be roughly the same as winter war event (molotov rippentrop pact exists, no poland, no war between soviets and germans etc.)

ah btw .. in the case estonians reject the 1939 offer to simulate the defence league atleast 3 militia divisions should be given to estonia named Tallinna Malev, Tartu Malev, Pärnu Malev
In 1939 there were about 50000 members in the defence league.
 

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Re: Bitter peace question

Originally posted by Warlimont
Has the "Bitter Peace" event been dropkicked through the goalposts of CORE/HOI in version 6?

Warlimont

Bitter Peace is still in there, but this ain't your daddy's Bitter Peace. The German player has more options in event chains, that will determine how and when teh Bitter Peace comes about. You'll have to play about 6 successful games as Germany to find them all out. :D So get playing...
 

Steel

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Originally posted by barrabas
Hi!
I have just stumbled upon a very interesting site on Soviet-German relations during the pre-war up untill Barbarrosa. Have a look at it... :)

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/nazsov/nazsov.htm


The Avalon Project is one of the primary sources used for C.O.R.E. including event chains such as the Anti-Comintern Pact, the Commercial Agreement and the Tripartite Pact :) Very good website IMHO and thanks for posting it, better to have good sources posted twice than missing one of them!

BTW, did you check out the reworked Nomonhan Incident? I may be slow but I do get there eventually :p
 

donkeysaint

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Originally posted by Steel
The Avalon Project is one of the primary sources used for C.O.R.E. including event chains such as the Anti-Comintern Pact, the Commercial Agreement and the Tripartite Pact :) Very good website IMHO and thanks for posting it, better to have good sources posted twice than missing one of them!

BTW, did you check out the reworked Nomonhan Incident? I may be slow but I do get there eventually :p
I have and you are/do.. :)
O.6 is really fun and I'm looking for things to improve as we speak, so expect me to be a bit more active this week... I'll even have a few more Khalkin Ghol event wishes... :)
 

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0.6 and Soviet Union

Hi!

After playing 0.6 for a few days I am immensly impressed about how we have improved this game. I really petty those who don't use this unique mod.

But things can still be improved. Here are a few observations/bugs/suggestions:

1. I have some objections about the models, should I bring it up here or in the models thread?

2. The minister and leader files is not the same as in the leaderpack. This leads to problems with several events and minister id:s. The Sov min/leaderfiles that comes with CORE should be deleted and the events checked again for id:s (I provided the files to CORE so I now what I'm talking about :)).

I also would like to suggest a few trait switches in the leaderpack min file, for historical reasons. So we will end up with a CORE Sov min file anyway... ;)

3. Tech/OOB:
IMO (as I've previously argued) Sov should start with the Paratropper tech and one Airborne division along with a pre-war airtransport. Historical and hardly unbalancing to add one tech and two units.

Heavy bombers. I haven't looked up the exact numbers of TB-3's in the VVS in 1936, but I'm pretty sure they add up two at least one and maybe two Pre-war Stratbomb divisions. Again, historical and hardly unbalancing. They aren't very usefull are they?

That's it for now... :)
 

donkeysaint

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Here are some events we could use. They have not been tested yet and are my first, so please look for errors. Minister id:s are from the leaderpack files.

The first one handles the appointment of Molotov as Foreign Minister, and gives Sov a choice to improve realations with Germany (historical) or to continue the negotiations with Britain and France that were going on at the time.
This is part of my idea to link the M/R-pact to pre-war events.
Code:
#######################################################################
#  The appointment of Molotov
#######################################################################

event = {
	id = xxx
	random = no
	country = SOV
	trigger = { event = 2003 } 
# German annexation of Sudetenland event 
	
	name = "The appointment of Molotov"
	desc = "During the pre-war years, Stalin watched
 with increasing anxiety as Germanys power rose. It was common
 knowledge that Hitler saught 'Lebensraum' in the east, and
 Stalin understood that a future conflict would be hard to avoid.
 His foreign minister M.M. Litvinov was instructed to see if an
 agreement of some sort could be negotiated with the western
 powers, and limited pacts were signed with both the French and
 the Czechks. But these pacts never played any great part, and
 Fascism continued to grow in strenght. After the München
 agreement, where USSR wasn't invited, Soviet policy started to
 sway. Stalin thought that war between Germany and
 England/France semeed unlikely and decided to look after his
 own house and do the unthinkable - explore the possibilty of a
 pact with Hitler. Therefore Litvinov, who had good relations with
 the west and was jewish, had to be replaced. 
 Molotov - the hammer - assumed office."

	style = 0

	date = { day = 3 month = may year = 1939 }

	action_a = {
name = "We need to improve relations with Germany,
Molotov is our man! "
command = { type = foreignminister which = 4034 } 
# Molotov as foreign minister
	}

action_b = {
name = "No, Hitler can never be trusted!
Let Litvinov see what Britain can offer..." 
# Possible event-chain to bring SOV to the allies or something
command = { type = foreignminister which = 4003 } 
#Just in case the player has replaced him.
command = { type = sleepevent which = 2050 } 
#Disable M/R-pact
	}
}

The following events are linked to the Naval Programme, and must be put to sleep in the b-choice of event 222015 (decision to start the programme or not).
Code:
#######################################################################
#  USSR naval programme - Re-organisattion of the Navy - 
appoint Viktorov
#######################################################################

event = {
	id = xxx
	random = no
	country = SOV
	trigger = { }
	
	name = "Re-organisation of the Navy - appoint Viktorov"
	desc = "After the decision had been taken to greatly
 expand the Soviet Navy, its leadership was re-organised.
 Commanders connected to the former defensive naval policy
 were removed and replaced with people in favor of a powerfull
 fleet, capable of offensive operations. Thus the Chief of Navy,
 V.M. Orlov, resigned and was replaced by the commander of the
 Far East Fleet, Admiral M.V. Viktorov"

	style = 0

	date = { day = 15 month = july year = 1937 } 
#I don't have the exact date, only the month.

	action_a = {
		name = "Viktorov will help us re-build the Navy "
command = { type = chiefofnavy which = 4061 } #Viktorov
	
                    }

}


#######################################################################
#  USSR naval programme - Kuznetsov assumes office
#######################################################################

event = {
	id = xxx
	random = no
	country = SOV
	trigger = { }
	
	name = "Kuznetsov assumes office"
	desc = "The purges in the Soviet Union also effected
 the Navy and many of its leaders became victims. One of them
 was the Chief, Viktorov. His successor came from the Secret
 Police, the NKVD, and was hardly suited for the task. Finally,
 in april 1939 the young and talented Nikolai Kuznetsov was
 appointed new head of the Soviet Navy." 
	style = 0

	date = { day = 28 month = april year = 1939 }

	action_a = {
		name = "He is young and ambitious. Appoint him! "
command = { type = chiefofnavy which = 4062 } #Kuznetsov 
command = { type = sleepleader which = 10338 } #Viktorov,
leader
command = { type = sleepminister which = 4061 } #Viktorov,
minister
	
                     }

}
 
Last edited:

Steel

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Re: 0.6 and Soviet Union

Originally posted by barrabas
2. The minister and leader files is not the same as in the leaderpack. This leads to problems with several events and minister id:s. The Sov min/leaderfiles that comes with CORE should be deleted and the events checked again for id:s (I provided the files to CORE so I now what I'm talking about :)).

I love it when people say that - reduced file maintenance is a great thing :cool:

I also would like to suggest a few trait switches in the leaderpack min file, for historical reasons. So we will end up with a CORE Sov min file anyway... ;)

And then you had to ruin it :( Well, post the changed lines here and some comments to explain it.


IMO (as I've previously argued) Sov should start with the Paratropper tech and one Airborne division along with a pre-war airtransport. Historical and hardly unbalancing to add one tech and two units.

For the AI it's just another leg infantry unit (expensive though). For the human player it would be the only country in the world with a para unit in 1936. As a human USSR, how would you use the unit?


Heavy bombers. I haven't looked up the exact numbers of TB-3's in the VVS in 1936, but I'm pretty sure they add up two at least one and maybe two Pre-war Stratbomb divisions. Again, historical and hardly unbalancing. They aren't very usefull are they?

Actually IMHO they are over-powered. I'd like to see those units in the OOB but also I want the pre-war bombers to have their teeth pulled.
 

Steel

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Originally posted by barrabas
Here are some events we could use. [/code]


Nice :) You'll need to look at triggers, we've had CTD problems in the past with assigning ministers and also it might not be very appropriate to assign Molotov if Germany doesn't exist, if there is a GER-SOV war, if USSR is democratic...

It would be nice to see a B choice as well, players generally like choice.
 

donkeysaint

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Re: Re: 0.6 and Soviet Union

Originally posted by Steel
[...]And then you had to ruin it :( Well, post the changed lines here and some comments to explain it.
The reason for the IMO ahistorical traits is that Birch in the leadermodificationsthread wanted players to have a wider choice of minister traits. We can adjust that if we want.

4061;Chief of Navy;Mikhail V. Viktorov;37;ST;Decisive Naval Battle Doctrine;Very Low;viktorov_sov;x
# Changed from Power Projection Doctrine. V. was an old BB commander, not a carrier man. Av. from 1937 insted of '38.

4065;Chief of Air Force;P.V. Rychagov;38;ST;Air Superiority Doctrine;Medium;rychagov_pv4_sov;x
#Changed from Naval Aviation Doctrine. Not really what Rychagov was about. Could be Army Aviation, but there's so many of them already.

4067;Chief of Air Force;A.E. Golovanov;42;LE;Carpet Bombing Doctrine;High;golovanov_alexander_sov;x
#From Army Aviation Doctrine. Golovanov was THE Soviet heavy bomber man. 1942 instead of '40, he was quite a junior officer untill the end of the war. Didn't become CoAF until after the war.

4068;Chief of Air Force;Alexander Novikov;42;ST;Army Aviation Doctrine;Very High;novikov_alexander_sov;x
#Novikov was Close Air Support embodied (spelling? :)).
For the AI it's just another leg infantry unit (expensive though). For the human player it would be the only country in the world with a para unit in 1936. As a human USSR, how would you use the unit?
Well, they were the only ones to have large airborne formations and the capacity to airdrop/transfer them. I would use them as they were used historically, as ground troops (they should IMO get boosts in def and hard attack) and some drops in support of offensives, i.e. for flair. And with the new rules I don't find them so overpowered.
Actually IMHO they are over-powered. I'd like to see those units in the OOB but also I want the pre-war bombers to have their teeth pulled.
Surely one or two units won't make such a big difference. Hell, even Spain has one.
Nice :) You'll need to look at triggers, we've had CTD problems in the past with assigning ministers and also it might not be very appropriate to assign Molotov if Germany doesn't exist, if there is a GER-SOV war, if USSR is democratic...

It would be nice to see a B choice as well, players generally like choice.
Well, there is a b choice in the molotov event and I guess I can add a 'we don't need any changes' choice in the CoN events. But they are connected to the choice to build a powerfull navy, and Orlov was not the man for that. Viktorov however fell victim to Stalins purge-paranoia (it's also speculated if he perhaps realised that the immense programme was to much for the country, and therefore 'removed'...)
I'll look to add some triggers.

:)
 

unmerged(18202)

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We could have an alternate history event to put Yagoda in charge of the army:

Uncle Joe: "Red Army is badly messed up, Yagoda. Many good officers are in gulag or up against wall."

Yagoda: "I will run Soviet Army for you, Premier Stalin. Oompossible I bring back to life everyone dead, but I get Army back on right Trock for Motherland. First step is Molotov is spy for Turks, should be in Gulag."

jkk
 

donkeysaint

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Yea, that would make some event.. ;)

MateDow: Here are some naming suggestions for the Naval OOB. I believe 'Eskadra' is more appropriate than 'Flot' for the submarine and transport formations.
KBF, ChF and TOF are abbrevations for the different Fleets.

BTW, are you sure there were no destroyers at all in the Far East Fleet in 1936? I'll try to look it up.
Edit: Indeed, no destroyers in the Far East Fleet until
October '36.

navalunit = {
id = { type = 10848 id = 400 }
name = "KBF Podlodok Eskadra"
location = 788 #Leningrad


navalunit = {
id = { type = 10849 id = 401 }
name = "ChF Podlodok Eskadra"
location = 862 #Sevastopol


navalunit = {
id = { type = 10849 id = 403 }
name = "TOF Transportnaya Eskadra"
location = 1663 #Vladivostok
 
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