C.O.R.E HOI - United States of America

[Generalisimo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Monroe Doctrine

Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Anyone knows how was it handled in Federalist Mod? As far as I remember, there was a lot of South America events...

probably [guessing] in the same way Bolt did it, the same for all, and that was not the historical case. [/guessing]

 

[MateDow]

What kept Argentina from joining the Axis historically and how can that be recreated in CORE? MDow

 

[Generalisimo]

Originally posted by MateDow
What kept Argentina from joining the Axis historically and how can that be recreated in CORE? MDow

the political (all military men) wanted more or less, but the aristocracy NEVER wanted that, they were too close to "Great Britain".
So, although the military men wanted, the people will not follow them... (they were not sure, so why take the risk?)
Also, our geographical situation was not the great, who can help us being so far from our allies? This was always consider in every meeting the military had.

That's why we kept helping the axis "secretly"....


You must think also that Brazil considered both options too, but, never "showed" a real pro-axis policy like Argentina did...
Then, when the axis were loosing Brazil joined the allies (at last) and was the ONLY South American country that fought in Europe against the axis.

We, only as a political maneuver, declared war against Germany days before their surrender...

 

[Steel]

Ok, so it breaks down to

- Argentina/Brazil/(others?) could have internal events making them centrist due to resistance to the idea of going to full war. They can also have (US-sponsored or domestic) coup events (not 100% certain) that will remove them from the Axis alliance and make them centrist.

- MateDow can provide the details for interventions in other countries, such demonstrations of US ability to project force could affect all countries in region

- Other countries could have generic events for making them centrist/democratic if they move to far towards fascism. Optionally they could also have the coup events.

 

[Generalisimo]

Originally posted by Steel
Ok, so it breaks down to

- Argentina/Brazil/(others?) could have internal events making them centrist due to resistance to the idea of going to full war. They can also have (US-sponsored or domestic) coup events (not 100% certain) that will remove them from the Axis alliance and make them centrist.

not US sponsored... we will surelly hate anything that came from USA (*).... i don't think it could be a posibility... maybe if UK is "in the middle of it"... (due to the close relations of the aristocracy that always thought they were "europeans" rathen than "americans" (from AMERICA, no USA) ).


(*) there was a real movement "Hecho en Argentina" (made in argentina) that wanted to produce everything here, and "hated" everything that came from outside, specially the USA.
Here more info about the movement:

Generalisimo: maybe we could use F.O.R.J.A as one of the cabinets in the shadows. I have a lot of information about this small political group that gained a spot in Argentina's history. Although small in members (a few thousands) it was very active until they dissapeared around the end of WW2. This group was the first polictical group in Argentina to develop a home made or "made in argentina" ideology. It was very controversial and some people thought they were fascist, other's thought they were socialist, and other believed they were centrist.

 

[Steel]

Yup, see your point. So will you look at making those events? It's probably best to have country-specific events for the big nations (and historical occurences) and regional events for the small nations. No good trying to add another 100 events

 

[Generalisimo]

Originally posted by Steel
Yup, see your point. So will you look at making those events? It's probably best to have country-specific events for the big nations (and historical occurences) and regional events for the small nations. No good trying to add another 100 events

i have no problem working on them... but i have to "polish" the idea first...

 

[MateDow]

US Intervention in Central America

Here is some of the examples that I could find in relatively short order....

1903- The Platt Amendment is inserted into the Cuban Constitution granting the US the right to intervene 'if necessary."

1903- US supports a 'revolution' in Panama and guarentees Panamanian independence

1904- US customs agents take control of finances in the Dominican Republic to ensure payment of foreign debt

1906- US Marines land in Cuba to help prevent civil war

1910- US Marines land in Nicaragua to help support President Diaz

1914- US Navy bombs and occupies Veracruz Mexico

1916- US Marines occupy the Dominican Republic staying until 1925

1917- US Marines land in Cuba to guarantee sugar deliveries during WWI

1926- US Marines occupy Nicaragua to prevent "a Nicaraguan-Mexican-Soviet conspriacy within striking distance of the canal"

1932- US Navy rushes 10 warships to El Salvador in response to a communist uprising

1941- (Good event possibility here) Ricardo Adolfo de la Guardia deposes Panamanian president Arias in a military coup-- first clearing it with the U.S. Ambassador

1943- The editor of the Honduran opposition paper El Cronista is summoned to the U.S. embassy and told that criticism of the dictator Tiburcio Carías Andino is damaging to the war effort. Shortly afterward, the paper is shut down by the government

1944- (Good event possibility here) The dictator Maximiliano Hernández Martínez of El Salvador is ousted by a revolution; the interim government is overthrown five months later by the dictator's former chief of police

1948- José Figueres Ferrer wins a short civil war to become President of Costa Rica. Figueres is supported by the U.S., which has informed San José that its forces in the Panama Canal are ready to come to the capital to end "communist control" of Costa Rica

And Americans wonder why we aren't popular in Central America This should provide proof that if a facist government was developing in Central America, the American government would have intervened (assuming the US isn't facist). There are some interesting events in here as well that I didn't know about until doing this research. This could add some flavor to a rather bland Western Hemisphere. MDow

 

[Generalisimo]

of course, i like all that.

 

[Steel]

Lend-Lease

Should lend-lease be expanded to include the historical countries? Effect would be drain on US economy (good!), boost for minor nations (good!) and move minor nations away from Fascism (good!). Anybody willing to code it? The US effects events could be just one or two persistent events that are called to reduce stockpiles.

Lend?lease agreements signed, as of December 31, 1942, with United States: Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, China, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Ethiopia, French Committee of National Liberation, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Iceland, Liberia, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, United Kingdom, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Uruguay, Venezuela, Yugoslavia.

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: Lend-Lease

Originally posted by Steel
Should lend-lease be expanded to include the historical countries? Effect would be drain on US economy (good!), boost for minor nations (good!) and move minor nations away from Fascism (good!). Anybody willing to code it? The US effects events could be just one or two persistent events that are called to reduce stockpiles.

Lend?lease agreements signed, as of December 31, 1942, with United States: Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, China, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Ethiopia, French Committee of National Liberation, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Iceland, Liberia, Mexico, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, United Kingdom, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Uruguay, Venezuela, Yugoslavia.

i think you must create 2 events for every lend lease agreement, one for USA to choose if they want to offer lend lease to X country, and one for the country X to sign it or not, then event A (persistent )will take resources from USA.
so:
2- Belgium
2- Bolivia
2- Brazil
2- Chile
2- China
2- Colombia
2- Costa Rica
2- Cuba
2- Czechoslovakia
2- Dominican Republic
2- Ecuador
2- El Salvador
2- Ethiopia
2- French Committee of National Liberation
2- Greece
2- Guatemala
2- Haiti
2- Honduras
2- Iceland
2- Liberia
2- Mexico
2- Netherlands
2- Nicaragua
2- Norway
2- Paraguay
2- Peru
2- Poland
2- United Kingdom
2- Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
2- Uruguay
2- Venezuela
2- Yugoslavia
32 x 2 = 64 events
+ 2 USA = 66 events

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Re: Lend-Lease

Originally posted by Steel
(...)Czechoslovakia(...)Greece(...)Norway(...)Poland(...)Yugoslavia.... (...)1942

As you can see, those countries are not existant in 1942 in HoI sense - historically Lend Lease was signed also with government-in-exile. But it's minor problem. Checking most of the countries in test games I've noticed, that UK, USSR, Holland and Begium got no problems with resources (supplies are notable exception). If we introduce Leand Lease as resource transfer, it will only drain US reserves without positive effect on other countries. Technology transfer and supply convoys is whole different matter - but drain of supplies could really affect US economy.

On the other hand, in case of South American and Asian minors it's a good idea to affect their allignment.

BTW, until 1942 war in Europe is almost over, so we can't use historical date, it should be triggered by german advances, not by date.

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: Re: Lend-Lease

Originally posted by Copper Nicus
As you can see, those countries are not existant in 1942 in HoI sense - historically Lend Lease was signed also with government-in-exile. But it's minor problem. Checking most of the countries in test games I've noticed, that UK, USSR, Holland and Begium got no problems with resources (supplies are notable exception). If we introduce Leand Lease as resource transfer, it will only drain US reserves without positive effect on other countries. Technology transfer and supply convoys is whole different matter - but draing supplies could really affect US economy.

On the other hand, in case of South American and Asian minors it's a good idea to affect their allignment.

BTW, until 1942 war in Europe is almost over, so we can't use historical date, it should be triggered by german advances, not by date.

i was thinking of that too...
we should check conditions, and also if the specified country exists, so, if Poland does not exists, the event will trigger ONLY when Poland is created.

 

[Steel]

My thoughts on it was that it will be a lot of events, but easy copy/paste work once it's piloted for a few countries. Also the events can be very specific (single day date, no random factor) so I don't think it will be a great load on the system (as compared to a random = 1 trigger checked each day for months).

To keep it reasonable for the US player, make it one or at most a few regional events for enabling Lend-Lease for a given year. Put the conditions (ie NOT member of Axis and so on) in the receiving country, let them have the effects at once and then trigger the persistent US event to deduct resources. Doing it this way completely bypasses the non-existent country issue

Probably go for coal/steel/oil/rubber being deducted in US with the receiving country getting minor IC (1-2 points) increase, resource increase, maybe supply increase and maybe 1 free tech. Probably best to give supplies to larger countries but tech to smaller countries.

The point about basing it on Axis or Comintern expansion is totally valid, so why not base it on US war entry? I think that would work.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by Steel
The point about basing it on Axis or Comintern expansion is totally valid, so why not base it on US war entry? I think that would work.

Good idea. Just remember, that it will be only anti-Axis solution - when Comintern advance American warentry drops. But if we solve "neutrality" problem with at least Axis countries, it would be good enough.

 

[Steel]

I think Generalisimo is working on the events for American intervention / influence in the western hemisphere, but I don't think anybody picked up the Lend-Lease idea? Any volunteers?

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by Steel
I think Generalisimo is working on the events for American intervention / influence in the western hemisphere, but I don't think anybody picked up the Lend-Lease idea? Any volunteers?

I could start USSR part, as well as Murmansk Convoys.

 

[unmerged(16851)]

Cool, I have zero skills when it comes to scripting, but I have nice library of books, with many that have data on lend lease. I could crunch some numbers for you (Coper Nicus) so you have a base line to work from. Couple of days I could have them for ya. If you want.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by craig77
Cool, I have zero skills when it comes to scripting, but I have nice library of books, with many that have data on lend lease. I could crunch some numbers for you (Coper Nicus) so you have a base line to work from. Couple of days I could have them for ya. If you want.

Sure, why not? I just downloaded some numbers from the web, but I'm not sure what was the difference between supplies that were sent and those that actually arrivied. It would be great if you could find some info about that.

 

[unmerged(16851)]

Sorry been busy at work.

I believe some of the stats I have do indicate the numbers shipped, and the numbers which had arrived. Their are good details on weapons. The information about other supplies is there also but I can't remember how well it is broke down. I will check tonight....For sure