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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
Feb 24, 2003
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2nd New Deal

Not necessarily. Most games for the USA are run by the computer so the "b" and "c" choices are still there to randomize the size of the US economy (in this case the depth of the recession) and keep things from getting too stale.

For a US player, he has three bad choices. Personally, I think this is different but good. Figuring out how to limit one's losses is as important as understanding how to maximize gains.
 

unmerged(36878)

Recruit
Dec 13, 2004
7
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Csa

Is it possible for a way that Texas can sucede from the Union and the CSA to sucede from the Union. Im not sure what events would lead to this but, I know some of yall might come up with an idea.
 

Permanganate

The Gibrataltor
Nov 29, 2004
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RedFalcon said:
Is it possible for a way that Texas can sucede from the Union and the CSA to sucede from the Union. Im not sure what events would lead to this but, I know some of yall might come up with an idea.

Why would either of those happen, anyway? CORE is about a more historical game, and the idea of Texas seceding from the USA was ridiculous by this time. The CSA's slightly less ridiculous; a successful German invasion might have resulted in a CSA puppet state, with everything else being annexed. if you want to play the CSA from the start, try http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158403. You'll also need to fix a bug, noted in http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173609. And for added fun, it doesn't work with CORE.
 

unmerged(26538)

Second Lieutenant
Mar 6, 2004
108
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US Inf division (motorized)

Hi, could have the USA an individual tech to reflect the extra power and supplies compsumption of their divisions? The idea is represent the extra units in motorized inf division, like the batallion of tanks attached. The american motorized then will be more expensive to build and run, but also more stronger.

Another thing: There is any way to limit the units of a country? Playing as USSR in CORE .84 I see USA having 54 armor units... in the reality they had 18, as far as I know.
 
Feb 24, 2003
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US Motorization

There are a couple of comments here:

1) Brigades & Tech: There is argument that historical US builds would include motorized infantry with engineer brigades or artillery brigades in most of their divisions. The AI doesn't do this, but a player can. That uses the in-game mechanics to generate the effect you're talking about.

2) The USA was nuts when it came to lavishing equipment on their units. Even Paratrooper and Marine divisions had 2000 trucks in the OOB by 1944. All the infantry in the armored divisions were in half-tracks (compared to just a battalion in most German panzer divisions). When the US did its wargame exercises in 1941, they correctly realized they had ineffective tank heavy divisions and reorganized into nearly perfect 1:1:1 tank/infantry/artillery symmetry with the wartime armored division. By late 1944, most US infantry divisions had a medium tank battalion, a tank destroyer battalion, and a recon battalion that included a company of light tanks, a company of armored cars, and a company of half-track mounted infantry, ie more AFVs than most contemporary understrength German panzer divisions. If (1) isn't enough for you then consider the following three of techs:

Code:
		application = { # US Armor Reorganization
			id = 11206
			name = "US Armor Reorganization (USA Only)" 
			desc = "During the summer of 1941, it became clear that the US armor doctrine was faulty.  Exercises clearly demonstrated that the tank-heavy divisions which the USA had initially selected were vulnerable to anti-tank guns.  The divisions were re-organized for balance, including three armored battalions, three mechanized battalions (with all the infantry mounted in half-tracks), and three self-propelled artillery battalions.  The division had another reconnaissance battalion of light tanks, mechanized infantry, and armored cars.  This was still a big division, containing over 250 tanks and 500 half-tracks.  Contemporary German divisions had about half as many tanks and most of their infantry were transported in trucks instead of half-tracks. That ratio would only grow worse as the war went on and the Germans had trouble keeping divisions up to strength." 
			
			required = { 11518 11203 2102 14203 2956 } # Modern Tank Warfare, Combined Arms Warfare, Basic Halftracks, Self-propelled Artillery Prototype Tests, & .30 cal AAMG for air defense effect (you have hundreds more MG's on the half-tracks now).
			chance = 90
			cost = 6
			time = 180
			neg_offset = 45
			pos_offset = 90
			
			effects = {
				command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 } # extra infantry and in AFVs to boot.  
				command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 } # extra infantry and in AFVs to boot
				command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 } # more effectiveness from existing armor
				command = { type = air_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 } # All those HT's have ring-mounted MGs
				command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.4 }
				command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 } # thirsty half-tracks
				command = { type = build_cost	which = armor	when = on_upgrade 	value = 2 }
			}
		}
application = { # US Infantry Division Motorization
			id = 11309
			name = "US Infantry Division Motorization (USA-Only)" 
			desc = "Except for the Light (Mountain) Divisions organized by the US Army, each division included on the order of 2000 motor vehicles.  Even the Marines had a similar amount of transport.  In other armies this amount of transport was only found in armored or motorized formations.  Consequently, the potential speed, and fuel consumption, of US divisions was quite high."   	

			required = { 11103 11206 11305 } # Motorized HQs, US Armor Reorganization, Motorized Logistics Organization
			chance = 90
			cost = 4
			time = 120
			neg_offset = 45
			pos_offset = 90
			
			effects = { 				command = { type = speed 			which = infantry when = on_upgrade 	value = 3 }
				command = { type = supply_consumption 	which = infantry when = on_upgrade 	value = 0.8 }
				command = { type = fuel_consumption 	which = infantry when = on_upgrade 	value = 1.5 }
				command = { type = build_cost 		which = infantry when = on_upgrade 	value = 1 }				
				command = { type = speed 			which = marine 	when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
				command = { type = supply_consumption 	which = marine 	when = on_upgrade value = 0.8 }
				command = { type = fuel_consumption 	which = marine 	when = on_upgrade value = 1.5 }
				command = { type = build_cost 		which = marine 	when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
				command = { type = speed 			which = militia	when = on_upgrade 	value = 1 }
				command = { type = supply_consumption 	which = militia 	when = on_upgrade value = 0.5 }
				command = { type = fuel_consumption 	which = militia 	when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
				command = { type = build_cost 		which = militia 	when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
				command = { type = speed 			which = paratrooper when = on_upgrade 	value = 2 }
				command = { type = supply_consumption 	which = paratrooper when = on_upgrade 	value = 0.6 }
				command = { type = fuel_consumption 	which = paratrooper when = on_upgrade 	value = 1.5 }
				command = { type = build_cost 		which = paratrooper when = on_upgrade 	value = 1 }		
			}
		}
application = { # US Infantry Division Reinforcment
			id = 11308
			name = "US Infantry Division Reinforcement (USA-Only)" 
			desc = "By 1943, it became clear that combined arms operations greatly enhanced the effectiveness of infantry units.  The simplest solution for the US Army was the creation of additional medium tank battalions and tank destroyer battalions which could be directly attached to the existing infantry divisions.  This would add over 80 tanks and tank destroyers, a company of armored cars, and two companies of half-track mounted mechanized infantry to each receiving infantry division.  Based on tank and half-track count, this put each American infantry division at near parity with the average contemporary German panzer divisions and similar in equipment to a Soviet mechanized corps." 
			
			required = { 11307 11203 2102 2407 2955} # US Infantry Motorization Combined Arms, Basic Half-tracks, Improved medium tank prototype (precursor for 75 mm and up tank destroyers) and, presumably associated medium tank, & .50 AAMG for AA effect.
			chance = 90
			cost = 4
			time = 120
			neg_offset = 45
			pos_offset = 90
			
			effects = { # Note that this essentially lets infantry and motorized divisions upgrade to something very close to a mechanized division.
				command = { type = soft_attack which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 2 }
				command = { type = ground_defense which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
				command = { type = hard_attack which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 6 }
				command = { type = air_defense which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
				command = { type = speed which = infantry value = 2}
				command = { type = max_organization which = infantry value = 2 }
				command = { type = supply_consumption which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
				command = { type = fuel_consumption which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 2 }
				command = { type = build_cost which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 2 }				
				command = { type = soft_attack which = motorized when = on_upgrade value = 2 }
				command = { type = ground_defense which = motorized when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
				command = { type = hard_attack which = motorized when = on_upgrade value = 6 }
				command = { type = air_defense which = motorized when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
				command = { type = supply_consumption which = motorized when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
				command = { type = max_organization which = motorized value = 2 }
				command = { type = fuel_consumption which = motorized when = on_upgrade value = 2 }
				command = { type = build_cost which = motorized when = on_upgrade value = 2 }				
			}
		}

I've played these techs in V0.84 and they work fine, but I haven't verified them in V0.91 yet. There are other arguments, too. From a play-balance standpoint these are clearly bad ideas since it makes for a meaner, tougher US Army. With all the IC the USA has to begin with all the non-US players just got extra handicaps. From a historical standpoint, the US did substitute industrial output for manpower so the techs have more merit. It becomes a tuning decision whether I have the right numbers in the slots or not.

3) US Army Size: Historically the US invested enormous resources in the Navy and strategic bombers. The original Army mobilization plan was somewhere up over 200 divisions and they ended up scaling it back to a nominal 100 division army. However, if the US was prepared to reallocate resources I don't doubt that 50+ armored divisions were feasible.
 

unmerged(26538)

Second Lieutenant
Mar 6, 2004
108
0
Tk Div

Well, true about the 50+ armor divs, but still being some incoherence in the rate infantry/armor. Also the US have a very large navy (the largest, by far with 40+ carrier) and a very large airforce too (with lot of str bombers).
 

ConjurerDragon

Generalissimus
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Apr 19, 2005
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