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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
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Landon Topics

1) China: Historically you have Panay, Pittman, trade, and the troops coming home China in the ramp up to war. What you need to add is a Peace Plan where Landon tries to emulate TR's success in the Russo-Japanese War. He'll almost certainly fail (but if he succeeds he gets the Nobel Peace Prize). After talks break down, Isolationist Landon immediately pulls the troops home and loses DI. Hegemonic Landon and Big Stick Landon tilt to China with more aid. Big Stick Landon would go further and send out Great White Fleet II and probably embargo trade with Japan earlier. Certainly, he would be harder on Japan in the Panay incident (maybe that's the trigger for the embargo) (Status: 90% scripted and tested. Many submitted to Wiki and numbers reserved.)

2) Europe: The missing thing here are the Neutrality Acts and reaction events. Instead of having anonymous WE hits with European events, I would recommend adding a number of reaction events so that the USA gets a pop-up. Then Hegemonic and Big Stick Landon probably aren't that far from Roosevelt on reactions here. I can see BS Landon being sterner with the Germans and Landon in general being less inclined for the "death of the a thousand cuts" in increased tarriffs that Roosevelt used to try and influence German behavior. For example, Roosevelt canceled Helium sales to Germany after the Anschluss so the Germans ended up retiring the Graf Zeppelin II instead of risking a second fiery catastrope like the Hindenburg. I think it likely that BS Landon would pick a fight with Congress to break the Neutrality Acts as an unconstitutional abridgement of executive power. An Isolationist Landon would be far more blase about German aggression and get less positive WE from events and more negative WE from events. (Status: 90% scripted and tested. Many submitted to Wiki and most reserved)

3) Latin America: This is under-represented in the USA's event portfolio since HOI is a war game and Latin America was not a major theater of war. Even an isolationist Landon would pursue more bilateral trade there, along the lines of the historical events that Ghost_dk has already scripted. Hegemonic Landon wouldn't be far behind. The conflict between Haiti and the Dominican Republic might trigger a US intervention which would be best represented by an event reducing them puppet status and costing the USA supplies, oil, influence, and some manpower rather than triggering war entry. Possible for Hegemonic Landon and likely for BS Landon. Mexican-American relations deservesa bunch of new events. The Anglo-American oil nationalization crisis is about a 2-30 event chain. The historical slap on the wrist response of Roosevelt ends the crisis quickly with about the least risk and cost. The UK broke relations and a harder US response would have presented potential problems to the government in Mexico city. If the US had pushed hard enough, well, who knows where it might have ended up. The trouble there is that you then lose the missing help that Mexico gave in WW2. There should be an AI only event bringing Mexico into the war in the spring of 42 if the USA is at war and has "played nice". The "Bracero" guest worker program of the war years would be another event (manpower for USA, dissent reduction and supplies (the remitted wages going home) for Mexico), but again only if the USA "played nice". Mexico would also have some gain_tech and lend-lease if it joined the war. (Only about 10-20% scripted, though I have an outline for the Oil Crisis and almost none on the wiki or reserved numbers).
 

unmerged(24708)

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usa considers strong measures...

I am a bit unsure, there are so many americans here who probably know better. But isn't the event for "the US considers strong measures" a bit off base?. It's more probable to pop up than the "new european order event".

As I understand it,
1) Usa didn't want to go to war. (Period) But didn't want to be threatened either, thus iceland is important, monroe doctrine. Thus any annexing of nations like nei, uk, frk, should make the us grab those colonies without war.
An event should perhaps pop up were the us demands those territories, else war.

2) the European order shouldn't puppet UK, nor France. They should however join the "axis" cause. Hitler Liked these countries, and didn't want war with them. I'd like to write he probably was a lazy B*strd, and that he wouldn't have cared for taking the rest of the world. only poland and ussr and the wwi colonies.

3) the fall of belgium / paris should perhaps trigger neville steps down and leaves the reign of powers to a, WC or b, Lord halifax (his foreign minister whom he himself favoured over churchill) c, re-election. or something like that. The reason is that LH wanted peace and co-prosperity. The chance for LH should be slightly higher if you as germany stays with the treaty of munich and don't take the rest.

4) the occupational handling of ussr should really be taken out. the war in the east was from the outset about annihilation of that state and it's population. Unless an assassination attempt on hitler succeeds.... there were very many.

in summary, easier to reach peace in the west and harder in the east. But then again, I might be soo far off. It has always intrigued me how close it was that britain actually brokered for peace. If hitler started the war, churchill surely kept it going. In fact the invasion of france wasn't a jolly good option, in jan 1942 the uk still wanted to str bomb, and go in from the south. North afrika (op torch) was a compromise.

Also maybe a dissent penalty for completly loosing a unit. Gallipoli didn't go that well during wwi, and it would more accuratly reflect the fear of invading and loosing. the allies wouldn't invade with a div at a time.

ohh well
as a curiosity the emargo on materials against japan and the freezing of assets isn't so simple as it might seem. The assets could be unfrozen for purchase of non aviation products to equal those amounts in 1935-36, but the assistant secretary of state dean achesson decided by himself to not unfreeze any funds for oil purchases. it wasn't until sept 4 that cordell hull realised what had happened and didn't think he had a choice, thus the DA unofficial embargo became offical.
And then the japanese went to war, and conquered oil rich countries, the oil convoyed were mostly lost though, 58% of the extracted oil were lost in 1942, 85% in 43, 95% in 44 an 0% in 45. That's an effective submarine arm.

cheers
 

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melmquist said:
4) the occupational handling of ussr should really be taken out. the war in the east was from the outset about annihilation of that state and it's population. Unless an assassination attempt on hitler succeeds.... there were very many.

I couldn't disagree more. Those alternate plans existed in reality and could have been implemented. Why should a player be forced into only taking the historical choice?

Besides it's one of the more entertaining sequences in the game IMO.
 

unmerged(24708)

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CyberMajestic said:
I couldn't disagree more. Those alternate plans existed in reality and could have been implemented. Why should a player be forced into only taking the historical choice?

Besides it's one of the more entertaining sequences in the game IMO.

hmm, wouldn't have happened with hitler in power. But as one can make the choice of conquer and rule, and thus stay the historical course so to speak, i am inclined to back down. The game isn't about historical political accuracy, but rather a military one. I think I lost track of that when writing the above. Probably some other's too.

cheers
 

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Free the phillipines.......

I am playing my first CORE game as the US and have been fighting a losing battle against the Japanese in the Philipines...

Slowing retreating Mac and his division south as Japan continues to push forward. With Mac down to 35% strength and some of the Navy under the Philipine flag still in tact I want to pull out an dsave what I can, but since Mac can't be loaded onto a US transport he is going to be left I guess. My problem becomes how to get the Navy under the Phillipino flag into my ports. even though they are a US puppet they seem unable to dock in a US held port. Has anyone looked into scripting an event to revert control of all Phillipino forces over to the US once a certain number of conditions are met???

If not any help in coding this would be greatly appreciated. While I have played many a game in Vanilla I am just beginning My first US game in CORE after several successful stints as Germany.

This inability for me to save these forces has stopped me for the moment. I don't want to lose them, and would like to move them off to Guam or Pearl to fight again another day.

Any help???? :D
 

Crazyhorse

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Bigcat,

Please post same topics in one thread and not in several ones.

What you want is not possible to my knowledge. I do not think you can give units to another country throug an event.

But I made a event for you wich annexes the PHI in the US wich gives you control over the units. This is the best what can be done throug an event I think.
 

unmerged(34173)

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I realize I double posted however, it was only done once I checked the last post date for one of the threads. It had several questions from a few people that had not been addressed. I just wanted to make sure that I was asking the right people in the right place.

By the way thanks for the code. I think it looks like it should work. I am still trying to get up to speed to code my own event but so may other things seem to be getting in the way. Like playing!!! :D

Thanks again Crazyhorse
 

Battleline

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World Series 1942-47

This might have been addressed by now. Going through 26 pages of posts just isn't in my timeframe at this moment though. So if this has been addressed, just continue to the next message.

I noticed that on the C.O.R.E. site, it lists the World Series as an event from 1936-41. That leaves 1942-48. I also noticed that the NFL championship game is on there from 1936-47.

As baseball was the National Pasttime during World War II, I would propose that the missing World Series' are added to the next C.O.R.E. events list.

For the record, the World Series went as follows:
1942-St. Louis Cardinals (NL) defeated New York Yankees (AL), 4 games to 1
1943-New York Yankees (AL) defeated St. Louis Cardinals (NL), 4 games to 1
1944-St. Louis Cardinals (NL) defeated St. Louis Browns (AL), 4 games to 2
1945-Detroit Tigers (AL) defeated Chicago Cubs (NL), 4 games to 3
1946-St. Louis Cardinals (NL) defeated Boston Red Sox (AL), 4 games to 3 (on Enos Slaughter's mad dash)
1947-New York Yankees (AL) defeated Brooklyn Dodgers (NL), 4 games to 3.

Thanks,
Battleline
 
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Battleline: World Series & NFL - Events submitted for integration yesterday. The Sports Package also included two air-racing events, the 1941 Indy 500, the 1937 America's Cup, and the match race between Seabiscuit and War Admiral in 1938.

DiegoEV: US State Victory Points: In many countries it is a matter of seizing a fraction of the territory that contains the VP then going to annexation with a large part of the target country still unconquered. In the case of the USA, the federal structure of the government resulted in functioning state governments to provide local services and administration so taking out Washington would not at all shatter the day to day operation of American (as opposed to federal) government. The expectation of the designers is that the federal government would migrate to an unconquered portion of the USA and indefinately contest the conquest of the remaining fraction of the USA. Given the strong civic tradition of the USA and limited time span of the game, I think those are reasonable judgments. So if a nation wants to invade the USA they need to be prepared to wage war indefinately or conquer the whole thing.
 

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Engineer said:
Battleline: World Series & NFL - Events submitted for integration yesterday. The Sports Package also included two air-racing events, the 1941 Indy 500, the 1937 America's Cup, and the match race between Seabiscuit and War Admiral in 1938.

Engineer--Thanks! As a sports person, I always enjoy seeing the sporting events included. You're doing wonderful things with this project. Keep up the good work! Please PM me if you need anything sports-related researched for further sports events to be included. And, of course

Go Cardinals
:D
 

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Thanks, Eng, I asume something like that, but just for the Victory Points at the end of the game, I think that NY, Washingtown and other should have more value, but I guest that rest playability.
 

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World Series/Green Light Letter

Something I noticed while looking in the CORE World Series event files:

trigger = ( atwar = no )

However, as we can tell from the last few posts, the Series did go on through the war. An oversight, perhaps?

EDIT: Speaking of not stopping for the war...

The Green Light Letter (flavor event)
USA, 15 January 1942

"Soon after Pearl Harbor, the Commissioner of Baseball, Kennesaw Mountain Landis, had to decide whether or not to put professional baseball on hold. With the teams about to start spring training in a month, Landis wrote a letter to the President [note: historically FDR, but just in case he's voted out/couped/etc...] on January 14 asking for an opinion on so great a matter as shutting down the national pastime. Soon after, the President responded with what has become known in baseball history as the "Green Light Letter."
In it, he urged Landis to keep the game going, citing its positive effect on civilian morale. Historically, the game did go on, despite many stars spending the primes of their careers in the services."

More info (off the Baseball Hall of Fame website):
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/history/2003/030918.htm
 
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Sports

MLB continued through WW2 with many players and coaches called to service.
NFL continued thorug WW2 with many players and coaches called to service.
No America's Cup during WW2.
No Indy 500 during WW2 (Rickenbacker offered the course as an airfield, as it was used in WW1 but the newer aircraft required longer runways).
Canadian Football continued through WW2, but the crowds were so small (for the championship games down to just a few thousand in attendance versus upwards of 20,000 before and after the war) that I would probably turn their events "off" for war.
 

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US strike events are borked

The strike events 322137 to 322xxx in v09_new_events.txt definitely need review:
  • The "River Rouge" solutions (322181ff) don't all disable each other which makes them very brittle should the activation periods ever be changed.
  • The "UMW" strike (322137) might never end (if the ending events didn't occur by August 1937 it will continue forever).
  • "UAW strike part 4 &5" (322143f) can never occur. The strike only triggers in 1937 but those two solutions can only happen in 1936.
  • Same holds for 322148 and 322149 from the Ford strike. Strike occurs end of May, they can only occur beginning of May. (Otherwise same brittleness as mentioned with River Rouge.)
  • US Steel strike: Again prevention of multiple strike solutions depends on activation dates => Brittle.
  • This continues for the following strikes. In the aviation strike (322165ff) The brittleness finally takes its toll because it is possible for solution (322166 or 322167) and then 322169 to trigger! (And I stopped looking for these things from there so more might be after that).
  • The Ford strike in May 1937 is in twice as 322145ff and as 322318ff. It's not that much of a problem since the latter will never trigger since it depends on an event which doesn't seem to exist (322294). Same for US Steel.
  • The trigger of all those strikes contain:
    Code:
    	country = USA
    
    	trigger = 	{
    			...
    			exists = USA
    			}
    The "exists" seems a bit unnecessary here, since they are events for the US anyway.
  • And last but not least I'm a bit concerned about the effects of the solutions. A successfull strike moves the country to communism. If that was true, the whole of Europe would probably have joined the USSR in the 60s/70s. Also a successfull strike increases dissent while getting the strike organizers beaten up but some thugs has everything return to normal. You are aware of what can happen if a popular figur is attacked? Just look at the rise of Juschtschenko's (sp?) popularity after the poison attack. Also failing the strike with "The Robber Barons have cheated the working man again" has the common man simply go home without increased dissent. Dissent seems to be a function of the Robber Barons' dissent. Interestingly this is more or less reversed in the never triggering duplicates of Ford and US Steel mentioned above.
  • [added in edit] If several of these strikes occur at the same time (which seems probable from the start times) Marquette can reach 0 IC (just happened when the UAW Ford strike occured). This is probably caused by several
    Code:
    command = { type = industry which = 135 value = -2 } # Boston
    lines in the strike events mistaking Marquette for Boston.
 
Last edited:

WoMOS

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More on strikes

Since I had the impression that the strikes take a bit too long to finish, I did the math and the expected values for the strike lengths are:
UMW strike: 45 days
GM strike: 46 days
Ford strike 41 days (shorter due to the error of solutions 3&4 not possible and 1&2 immediatly possible)
US steel strike: 46 days
Little steel strike: 54 days
Woolworth strike: 53 days
Aviation strike: 53 days
(the last two are not completely exact since I didn't correct for the overlapping event times error)

I'm not a historian, but strikes taking 1 1/2 month on the average look a bit long to me.

And with the occurence probabilities needed for the above calculation it was also easy to find the expected outcome concerning dissent and communism. From the strikes which occur in 1937:
Expected increase for dissent is 12 (7 fixed from strike start events and 5 expected from the solutions).
Expected shift to communism is 23 (I didn't look at the effects of the facism and democracy changing effect).

So the strikes seem a bit overdone to me.

If anyone is interested in the spreadsheet, mail me.

(Note: 'Expected value' is from stochastics and means the result of averaging over lots of test runs (or doing some math instead). In many cases they will last longer.)
 
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I'll do a Mantis entry for the technical issues on the strikes a take a look at all of them.

Some of the questions, I can answer off the top of my head.

There is a draft Landon victory timeline which is not included in the V0.9 release. One of the results of the Landon victory is that the Supreme Court voids the Wagner Act. So for strikes after that SC decision (April, 1937) there is an alternate event set which reverses the probabilities for an outcome favorable to big business. This also explains some of missing event references. The alternate timeline won't make it into V0.91 and a logical piece of clean up before going to V1.0 release is purging all the loose ends that don't get wrapped up.

Political Alignment: I strongly recommend Niall Ferguson's The Cash Nexus. His argument is that the New Deal resulted in a system of regulatory capitalism in the USA where business was checked by labor and government regulation. Clearly that destination is somewhere between pure liberal government and communism. One could make an argument that the post war situation is that the triangle should be replaced with square where the new vertex is social democracy - a new alignment pole if you will between communism and classical liberalism. The European states cluster around that pole with the USA moving closer or farther from that pole depending on the political fortunes of the Democratic Party.

Dissent & Strikes: It is virtually axiomatic that companies have far more customers than employees. So a successful strike by the workers will be a benefit for them. But when the company raises prices it is the far broader public that ends up paying the union member for his successful labor action. NBER data on factory payrolls paints a distressing picture of the US situation in the wake of the strikes. Payroll peaked at a figure 133 (relative to 1921 as 100) in May of 1937. As the recession of 1937 took hold (and remember that employment is always a lagging indicator); and things starting dropping off dramatically in the 4th quarter of 1937 to bottom out at a figure of 89.5 in June of 1938. (see http://www.nber.org/databases/macrohistory/rectdata/08/m08242.dat )
The initial dissent hit is the anger of the workers at the factories. The subsequent strike resolution dissent is the broader and more diffuse result of increased costs and a bit of envy on the part of the unorganized workers against the unionized. (Remember that farmers look back to pre-WW1 as their golden period and in this period they were caught in the double whammy of depressed commodities plus higher manufactured goods prices). I don't mean to imply that the recession of '37 is solely caused by organized labor. There were lots of causes and higher labor costs was only one contributing factor.

Overall Labor Lost: The unions wanted Roosevelt to win, and kept the lid on in 1936. Prior to the election, average lost labor was running under one million man-days per month. For the twelve months from November 1936 to October, 1937, lost labor was running 2.5 million man-days a month. See ( http://www.nber.org/databases/macrohistory/rectdata/08/m08257.dat ) The economic disruption from the strikes was multiplied since disruptions at one spot in the supply chain would inevitable ripple up and down the supply chain.

Finally, the perennial complaint about the USA in play-balance terms is that it is too big and too influential. This is one of those happy circumstances where simulating the unanticipated adverse economic effects of the policy decisions (raising taxes, waging class warfare, supporting unionization, etc.) serves the play balance concern of slowing up US rearmament.
 

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Second New Deal

(Engineer - This is technically a continuation of the conversation from the CORE Bugs forum, but since we're not really talking about bugs anymore...)

Granted, the US does regain that IC from the Second New Deal event via electronic tech, Arsenal of Democracy, etc. However, since there's still no event directly canceling the effects, an interesting situation results.

Here's the event as coded:

event = {
id = 322008
random = no
country = USA

trigger = {
headofgovernment = 6035
}

name = CEVTNAME_322008
desc = CEVTDESC_322008

style = 0

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1937 }
offset = 90
#deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }

action_a = {
name = CEVTACTA_322008
command = { type = industry which = 112 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 116 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 121 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 187 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 188 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 192 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 122 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 125 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 177 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 178 value = -5 }
command = { type = dissent value = 2 }
}
action_b = {
name = CEVTACTB_322008
command = { type = industry which = 112 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 116 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 121 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 187 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 188 value = -5 }
command = { type = dissent value = 3 }
}
action_c = {
name = CEVTACTC_322008
command = { type = industry which = 112 value = -5 }
command = { type = industry which = 116 value = -5 }
command = { type = warentry which = USA value = -5 }
}
}

Now, as you can see, the US can reduce its losses to a bare minimum for either a point more of dissent or 5% down on WE. Therefore, there is little to no incentive to take the greater hit in Choice A. As such, would it make much more sense to replace this event with a single-choice one that simulates the effects of the 1937-38 recession?

EDIT - Grammar