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MateDow

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US Elections

For version 0.7 it would be nice to have different events that are triggered by different levels of dissent. If dissent was over 30% then an event would run where Landon was choice A. Otherwise the regular event would run. That would allow for the occasional upset, but would also make the elections more accurate with the feelings of the people. That is something that will take a little bit to get working correctly, so it probably won't be done in time for the next version. :( MDow
 

JRaup

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Re: US Elections

Originally posted by MateDow
For version 0.7 it would be nice to have different events that are triggered by different levels of dissent. If dissent was over 30% then an event would run where Landon was choice A. Otherwise the regular event would run. That would allow for the occasional upset, but would also make the elections more accurate with the feelings of the people. That is something that will take a little bit to get working correctly, so it probably won't be done in time for the next version. :( MDow

This is probably a better idea than just fooling around wirth the random %. But as MateDow said. getting the triggers right will take some time. I think we can work on this for 0.7 though.
 

Kevin Mc Carthy

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Re: US Elections

Originally posted by MateDow
For version 0.7 it would be nice to have different events that are triggered by different levels of dissent. If dissent was over 30% then an event would run where Landon was choice A. Otherwise the regular event would run. That would allow for the occasional upset, but would also make the elections more accurate with the feelings of the people. That is something that will take a little bit to get working correctly, so it probably won't be done in time for the next version. :( MDow

Look at the US election triggers. 1936 is random. The following presidential elections are triigered by dissent. I have a theory though that these are not working correctly as 1) the AI starts at dissent zero ; 2) Is fairly effective in reducing random dissent from events. Therefore, FDR actually has a fairly low chance of winning the 1940 ellection.

I'm going to look into this this weekend.
 

jdrou

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Re: Re: US Elections

Originally posted by Kevin Mc Carthy
Look at the US election triggers. 1936 is random. The following presidential elections are triigered by dissent. I have a theory though that these are not working correctly as 1) the AI starts at dissent zero ; 2) Is fairly effective in reducing random dissent from events. Therefore, FDR actually has a fairly low chance of winning the 1940 ellection.

I'm going to look into this this weekend.
Not sure what you mean here. If FDR wins in 1936 then there are 3 possible 1940 election events:
dissent<10,warentry>=50 Historical (3711: A=FDR,B=Wilkie)dissent>=10,warentry>=50 Alternative (3712: A=Wilkie,B=FDR)
warentry<50 Isolationist (3714: A=Taft,B=current)
Looks to me like if dissent is low then FDR has a high chance of being elected.
 

Kevin Mc Carthy

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US. Presidential Election of 1936 - Alternative Outcome (id=3710)
The random = 25 trigger should be changed to:
dissent = 10 # alternative outcome if dissent is >= 10

This is a much better alternative than the random trigger, which gives an improbibly large chance for FDR to lose.

US. Presidential Election of 1940 - Alternative Outcome (id = 3717)
Landon is the incumbent. Smith will usually win. Seems to be missing:
# the warentry is >=50 dissent >= 10 triggers

Add these two triggers:
warentry = 50
dissent = 10

The AI does a pretty good job of recovering from high dissent. I inflicited a 31% dissent on the US and the AI recovered down to 17% dissent in four months.
 

nachinus

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This is my US press shows the horrors of SCW event with reworked description by Daelyn75. The text had lots of typos and gramatical errors. It is necesary to replace it ASAP to avoid exposing my ridiculous level of english too much :p :D ;) :

#########################################################
# USA-North-american press shows the horrors of Spanish War
# by nachinus
#########################################################
event = {
id = 322006
trigger = {
atwar = no
war = { country = SPA country = SPR }
control = { province = 977 data = SPA } # Badajoz
control = { province = 967 data = SPA } # Zaragoza
NOT = {
OR = {
alliance = { country = USA country = GER }
alliance = { country = USA country = ITA }
alliance = { country = USA country = SPA }
}
}
}

random = no
country = USA
name = "North-American Press shows the horrors of Spanish War."
desc = "'There isn't any chance of reconciliation?'. 'No, we fight for Spain. They fight against Spain. We've decided to proceed at any cost'. 'But you'll have to kill half of Spain!' 'I've said at any cost!' This is a small part of an interview of General Franco by an American reporter a few months after the start of the war. The North-American press was primarily responsible for showing the world the horrors committed by both sides of the conflict. The Fascists had an extermination policy, while the Republicans who were comprised mostly of militia ignored the government's orders and took justice into their own hands. Observing the conflict, several photographers became famous, above all Robert Capa, who produced pictures that were especially forceful because they were taken almost fearlessly in the middle of battle, bringing readers closer to war than anything done earlier. Ernest Hemingway who later, after getting inspiration from his experience in the conflict, wrote his famous novel: 'For whom the bell tolls?'."
style = 0

date = { day = 1 month = april year = 1937 }
offset = 60 # Check for trigger conditions every 60 days
deathdate = { day = 30 month = october year = 1939 }

action_a = {
name = "Its horrible, but we can do nothing." command = { type = warentry which = USA value = -1 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Send humanitary help."
command = { type = alignment which = fascist value = -2 }
command = { type = supplies value = -50 }
command = { type = trigger which = 802000 } #SPR gets humanitary help
}
}
 

MateDow

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Originally posted by nachinus

name = "Send humanitary help."
#SPR gets humanitary help
}
}

Actually, contrary to all of your protests of poor English, this was the only thing that I could find. It should be Humanitarian. MDow
 

hendriks

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Please do not forget to look at the eternal 100% fascist allignment that USA has around 1942, due to Japan's constant influencing, which is succesfull most of the times.

Possible solutions, add to historical election outcomes (FDR) a strong shift towards democracy?

Just before the war broke out, FDR send a letter to Hitler to ask for the security and continued integrity of european nations, he actually listed them one by one, and Hitler used this letter in a famous speech in the Reichstag that got everybody laughing ;

"herr Roosevelt has asked me if the German forces won't violate the state lands and integrity of european nations and before all do not march into them and he defines those as being ; Estland, Letland, Litouwen, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, France, England, Hungary, Bulgaria, Roemania, Yugoslavia, Greece, Switzerland, Lichtenstein and Poland, MY ANSWER is...............,

This speech was shown again during the Neurenberg trials and Goering laughed again very hard.

This could be an event to shift USA 100% towards democracy.
Let me try and get the official text and make it into an event?
 

MateDow

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Originally posted by hendriks
Please do not forget to look at the eternal 100% fascist allignment that USA has around 1942, due to Japan's constant influencing, which is succesfull most of the times.

Possible solutions,

Would it break the diplomatic model by removing the US from Japan's list of countries to influence? That seems like the easiest way to accomplish that.


This could be an event to shift USA 100% towards democracy.
Let me try and get the official text and make it into an event?

Go for it. I don't think it should move the US 100%. 50% is an upper limit I think. MDow
 

hendriks

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Would it break the diplomatic model by removing the US from Japan's list of countries to influence? That seems like the easiest way to accomplish that.

I don't think it would break the diplo model, problem is that USA is centrist and most of the times Japan as well, although they are 100% fascist, so influence almost always is complete, taking the USA in 4 steps to 100% fascism.
I would say let them influence Asian countries and take the USA out, not really historical but the game reacts incorrect here.
If the events work however, then things can remain how they are and let Japan use it's DI on this.

Official text of Roosevelt's telegram is hereRoosevelt's telegram but it's earlier then I thought, April 1939, but it was important and Hitler showed part of his face in his reply. Should this event make USA more democratic then centrist?

I post the event when I've finished it or maybe make more
 

Steel

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Who influences the USA?

Originally posted by MateDow
Would it break the diplomatic model by removing the US from Japan's list of countries to influence? That seems like the easiest way to accomplish that.

I'd have two objections against that:

- It increases Japanese influence on the remaining countries in their influence list

- Historically Japan had a lot of diplomatic interaction with the US and tried very hard to find common ground (but were obviously not as successful as the China lobby).


I'm also thinking it would be better to get some additional countries to influence the USA as this would also work to counter a human player influencing Japan (rather than just disabling this for AI Japan).

Below I've included a stripped log from a v0.6 game, I've placed the Japanese attempts (qty 16) first followed by all other countries (qty 25). There's at least three glaring omissions in the list of influencers, namely Canada, the UK and Nationalist China. I'd welcome input on why this is so.


May 29, 1940 : USA have been successfully influenced by Japan.
August 18, 1944 : USA have been hardly influenced by Japan.
July 30, 1941 : USA have been successfully influenced by Japan.
May 19, 1945 : USA have been hardly influenced by Japan.
July 25, 1945 : USA have been hardly influenced by Japan.
October 22, 1945 : USA have been hardly influenced by Japan.
January 18, 1945 : USA have been hardly influenced by Japan.
March 21, 1945 : USA have been hardly influenced by Japan.
January 20, 1946 : USA have been influenced by Japan.
November 29, 1941 : USA have been barely influenced by Japan.
October 19, 1943 : USA have been successfully influenced by Japan.
December 18, 1946 : USA have been hardly influenced by Japan.
April 19, 1947 : USA have been completely influenced by Japan.
October 23, 1947 : USA have been influenced by Japan.
April 18, 1946 : USA have been barely influenced by Japan.
September 24, 1946 : USA have been hardly influenced by Japan.
July 3, 1936 : USA have been hardly influenced by Mexico.
July 6, 1936 : USA have been influenced by Ethiopia.
January 2, 1937 : USA have been hardly influenced by Ethiopia.
July 3, 1937 : USA have been hardly influenced by Mexico.
January 9, 1938 : USA have been influenced by Mexico.
July 7, 1938 : USA have been barely influenced by Mexico.
January 3, 1939 : USA have been hardly influenced by Mexico.
May 21, 1941 : USA have been barely influenced by France.
February 21, 1942 : USA have been hardly influenced by France.
June 4, 1942 : USA have been hardly influenced by France.
November 6, 1943 : USA have been hardly influenced by Mexico.
December 17, 1943 : USA have been hardly influenced by France.
March 7, 1944 : USA have been hardly influenced by Mexico.
April 3, 1944 : USA have been hardly influenced by New Zealand.
June 6, 1944 : USA have been hardly influenced by South Africa.
October 5, 1944 : USA have been hardly influenced by South Africa.
March 4, 1945 : USA have been hardly influenced by South Africa.
April 27, 1945 : USA have been barely influenced by Belgium.
January 6, 1946 : USA have been hardly influenced by France.
January 21, 1946 : USA have been completely influenced by Mexico.
March 5, 1946 : USA have been hardly influenced by New Zealand.
November 4, 1946 : USA have been hardly influenced by South Africa.
April 21, 1947 : USA have been influenced by Mexico.
June 8, 1947 : USA have been barely influenced by South Africa.
September 7, 1947 : USA have been hardly influenced by New Zealand.
 

hendriks

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##################################################
#######
# President sends telegram to Hitler to ensure world peace
# by hendriks
##################################################
#######
event = {
id = ?
trigger = {
atwar = no
NOT = {
OR = {
alliance = { country = USA country = GER }
alliance = { country = USA country = ITA }
alliance = { country = USA country = ENG }
}
}
}

random = no
country = USA
name = "President sends telegram to Hitler to ensure world peace."
desc = "President Roosevelt got increasingly concerned about war when the Allies gave their insurances to Poland after the treaty of Munich was violated. The president wrote a passionate telegram to both Germany and Italy, requesting the following; Are you willing to give assurance that your armed forces will not attack or invade the territory or possessions of the following independent nations: Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, The Netherlands, Belgium, Great Britain and Ireland, France, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Luxemburg, Poland, Hungary, Rumania, Yugoslavia, Russia, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, Iraq, the Arabias, Syria, Palestine, Egypt and Iran. Especially Hitler had a field day ridiculing this telegram in a famous speech to the Reichstag."
style = 0

date = { day = 14 month = april year = 1939 }
offset = 60 # Check for trigger conditions every 60 days
deathdate = { day = 15 month = april year = 1939 }

action_a = {
name = "Hitler insults the american president with his reply."
command = { type = warentry which = USA value = 5 }
command = { type = alignment which = democratic value = 50 }
}
}

Probably need to add some triggers that Germany is not at war yet........
 
Last edited:

hendriks

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##################################################
#######
# Address Delivered by President Roosevelt in Washington.
# by hendriks
##################################################
#######
event = {
id = ?
trigger = {
atwar = no
NOT = {
OR = {
alliance = { country = USA country = GER }
alliance = { country = USA country = JAP }
}
}
}

random = no
country = USA
name = "Address Delivered by President Roosevelt in Washington."
desc = "Let not dictators of Europe and Asia doubt our unanimity now. We know that although Prussian autocracy was bad enough, Naziism is far worse. Nazi forces are not seeking mere modifications in colonial maps or in minor European boundaries. They openly seek the destruction of all elective systems of government on every continent-including our own; they seek to establish systems of government based on the regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers who have seized power by force."
style = 0

date = { day = 15 month = march year = 1941 }
offset = 60 # Check for trigger conditions every 60 days
deathdate = { day = 16 month = march year = 1941 }

action_a = {
name = "Our country is going to play its full part."
command = { type = warentry which = USA value = 10 }
command = { type = alignment which = democratic value = 50 }
}
}

Probably needs triggers to ensure Axis are at war with Allies
 
Last edited:

MateDow

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Go through and check your placement of quotation marks. I noticed a couple of double quotes in the text of the description. I also notice puncuation outside of the description text on the second event. Other than that, I like them. MDow
 

hendriks

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##################################################
#######
# The Atlantic Charter; political effects.
# by hendriks
##################################################
#######
event = {
id = ?
trigger = {
atwar = no
NOT = {
OR = {
alliance = { country = USA country = GER }
alliance = { country = USA country = JAP }
alliance = { country = USA country = ENG }
}
}
}

random = no
country = USA
name = "Presidential address to the Congress of the United States:"
desc = "The Congress and the President having heretofore determined through the Lend Lease Act on the national policy of American aid to the democracies which East and West are waging war against dictatorships, the military and naval conversations at these meetings made clear gains in furthering the effectiveness of this aid. Furthermore, the Prime Minister and I are arranging for conferences with the Soviet Union to aid it in its defense against the attack made by the principal aggressor of the modern world-- Germany. Finally, the declaration of principles at this time presents a goal which is worth while for our type of civilization to seek. It is so clear cut that it is difficult to oppose in any major particular without automatically admitting a willingness to accept compromise with Nazism; or to agree to a world peace which would give to Nazism domination over large numbers of conquered nations. Inevitably such a peace would be a gift to Nazism to take breath--armed breath--for a second war to extend the control over Europe and Asia to the American Hemisphere itself. No society of the world organized under the announced principles could survive without those freedoms which are a part of the whole freedom for which we strive."
style = 0

date = { day = 21 month = august year = 1941 }
offset = 60 # Check for trigger conditions every 60 days
deathdate = { day = 22 month = august year = 1941 }

action_a = {
name = "Our country is going to play its full part."
command = { type = warentry which = USA value = 10 }
command = { type = alignment which = democratic value = 50 }
}
}

Probably needs triggers to ensure Axis are at war with Allies
 
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Thanks for the comments on my suggestions.

Matedow/Monroe Doctrine: Yes, I've been playing vanilla HOI so with the deeper CORE unit matrix, you're right.

Matedow, et. al/Amelia Earhart: She did disappear near the Carolines. Although nothing approaches conclusive proof, there are low reliability reports that her plane was shot down by the Japanese and she was subsequently captured by the Japanese. As a color piece, the historical result, clearly the most likely, would be a consequence-free humanitarian tragedy. As a low odds event, if wreckage had been recovered, the media might have seized on inconclusive or even contradictory evidence to blame the Japanese much as the magazine explosion on the USS Maine was blamed on Spanish saboteurs in the 19th century. Maybe the effect should be an anti-fascist alignment shift instead of a war entry.

Matedow/Kevin McCarthy/Washington Treaty & fortifications: Therre was an extension of the Washington Treaty that the US and GB adhered to (that's why the North Carolinas and KGVs were initially designed as 35,000 ton battleships). It's a good point that verifying the fortification levels for the Japanese islands is a must do. However, the Pacific campaign was THE case study for USN planning in the interwar period. Fortification activity here would be of interest to US planners. The US didn't fortify Guam or Wake in the interwar period specifically because of the treaty provisions so player activity to do so would result in US repudiation of a treaty clause that ought to have consequences. Maybe the tools aren't here to do it justice.

Kevin McCarthy/Large Armies: Thanks for the feedback. AI files are still a mystery to me and on my list of things to understand.

Steel, thanks for bringing up a fort level trigger.
 
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US Commercial Aviation Events

Some aviation events. The Pacific Clippers were flying in late 1935 scouting the route and really don't need anything more than a more or less peaceful Pacific. The bigger Boeings used on the Atlantic route need at least basic strategic bomber prototype technology. The last one for the Constellation marks the debut of a modern airliner with a pressurized hull for high-altitude flight. There is a parallel series of events for the British Imperial Airways routes that I haven't researched yet.

############################################################################
# Pan-Am Pacific Clipper Service (by Engineer)
############################################################################

event = {
id = ?
random = no
country = USA

trigger = {
exists = USA
NOT = {
war = { country USA country = JAP }
}
}

name = "Pan Am Pacific Clipper Service"
desc = "Pan-American World Airways initiates regular trans-Pacific passenger air service. The route is San Fancisco-Honolulu-Midway-Wake Island-Guam-Manila. It takes over 60 hours to traverse. A Martin M-130 four-engine flying boat is used to carry as many as twelve passengers on the longest legs, but the plane can carry up to 48 passengers on shorter flights. The M-130 has a maximum range of 5150 km."
style = 0

date = { day = 21 month = October year = 1936 }

action_a = {
name = "OK"
command = { type = influence value = 1 }
}
}

############################################################################
# Pan-Am Atlantic Clipper Service (by Engineer)
############################################################################

event = {
id =
random = no
country = USA

trigger = {
exists = USA
technology = 9107
atwar = no
}

name = "Pan Am Atlantic Clipper Service"
desc = "Pan-American World Airways initiated regular trans-Atlantic air-mail service on 20 May 1939. On 28 June 1939, regular passenger service commenced. A southern route linked the USA to Lisbon while the northern route linked the USA to Southampton, England. The Boeing 314 flying boat was used. This four-engined aircraft could carry 77 passengers to its full range of 5600 km. Some of components of the airframe used designs from the discontinued XB-15 strategic bomber project."
style = 0

date = { day = 28 month = jun year = 1939 }

action_a = {
name = "OK"
command = { type = influence value = 1 }
}
}

############################################################################
# Lockheed Constellation Enters Service (by Engineer)
############################################################################

event = {
id =
random = no
country = USA

trigger = {
exists = USA
technology = 9704
technology = 9708
}

name = "Lockheed Constellation Enters Service"
desc = "Prior to WW2, US commercial airlines specified a new high-speed, high-altitude airliner, what became the Lockheed Constellation. First flying on 15 January 1943, it was adopted by the USAAF as the C-69. In military configuration it could carry 63 passengers plus 2000 kg of cargo in a pressurized cabin for 3600 km at a cruising speed of 500 km/hr (600 km/hr top speed). Relatively few are produced since they used the same Wright R-3350 twin-row, 18 cylinder, air-cooled radial
engines as the B-29A Superfortress. They are used as VIP transports and deeply impress foreign dignataries. After the war, updated versions of this aircraft remained a first-rate air transport through the 1950s."
style = 0

date = { day = 30 month = jan year = 1943 }

action_a = {
name = "OK"
command = { type = influence value = 1 }
}
}
 

MateDow

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Earhart Disappearance

Originally posted by Engineer
Matedow, et. al/Amelia Earhart: She did disappear near the Carolines. Although nothing approaches conclusive proof, there are low reliability reports that her plane was shot down by the Japanese and she was subsequently captured by the Japanese. As a color piece, the historical result, clearly the most likely, would be a consequence-free humanitarian tragedy. As a low odds event, if wreckage had been recovered, the media might have seized on inconclusive or even contradictory evidence to blame the Japanese much as the magazine explosion on the USS Maine was blamed on Spanish saboteurs in the 19th century. Maybe the effect should be an anti-fascist alignment shift instead of a war entry.

I seem to remember that she disappeared near Howland Island which is NE of Australia. That would place her closer to the Gilbert Islands than the Carolines. I have also read that she was in communication with a vessel (Ithica) until what is believed to be close the end of the flight. Enrything that I have read points to running out of fuel rather than a conspiracy by the Japanese. I think that a flavor piece about the disappearance would be appropriate because of the high visibilty of the disappearance. I do not think there should be any posibility of an incident with the Japanese. I will get working on an event for the next version. It will probably have some supply loss to represent the $4 million dollars spent on the unsuccessful search. Maybe even a two event series where the disappearance happens and then the result of the search... might be a good set of events. MDow
 

MateDow

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Originally posted by Engineer
Thanks for the comments on my suggestions.

Matedow/Kevin McCarthy/Washington Treaty & fortifications: Therre was an extension of the Washington Treaty that the US and GB adhered to (that's why the North Carolinas and KGVs were initially designed as 35,000 ton battleships). It's a good point that verifying the fortification levels for the Japanese islands is a must do. However, the Pacific campaign was THE case study for USN planning in the interwar period. Fortification activity here would be of interest to US planners. The US didn't fortify Guam or Wake in the interwar period specifically because of the treaty provisions so player activity to do so would result in US repudiation of a treaty clause that ought to have consequences. Maybe the tools aren't here to do it justice.


Until we have a trigger that looks for fortifications, this will have to go into the book of good ideas awaiting further coding by Paradox. I do agree with you that fortifications built by either side should cause some diplomatic troubles between Japan and the US. Don't forget that Singapore was developed as a major base for the Royal Navy because the British were unable to increase the defences of Hong Kong because of the treaty. Those provisions did have a big impact on the political flavor of the era, unfortunately we can't do anything with it :( MDow
 

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Re: US Commercial Aviation Events

Originally posted by Engineer

name = "Lockheed Constellation Enters Service"
desc = "Prior to WW2, US commercial airlines specified a new high-speed, high-altitude airliner, what became the Lockheed Constellation. First flying on 15 January 1943, it was adopted by the USAAF as the C-69. In military configuration it could carry 63 passengers plus 2000 kg of cargo in a pressurized cabin for 3600 km at a cruising speed of 500 km/hr (600 km/hr top speed). Relatively few are produced since they used the same Wright R-3350 twin-row, 18 cylinder, air-cooled radial
engines as the B-29A Superfortress. They are used as VIP transports and deeply impress foreign dignataries. After the war, updated versions of this aircraft remained a first-rate air transport through the 1950s."

This event should not be included as it is, in game terms, 100% dependant on the human/AI, technology research. Also, what real impact did this have as"Relatively few are produced..."?