C.O.R.E HOI - Sweden, Dennmark, Finnland, Norway, Iceland

[Ghost_dk]

newcommer adding his 5 cent

I've just started reading up on this project and i must say your work is amazing.

I have an idea for a Danish event.

I dont remember the exact date( I can find out), but some time during the german occupation a famous danish Atomic physicist Niels Bohr fleed to the USA and barely escaped german capture.

He was a great contributor to the manhatten project.

I think an event would be in order a say 50/50 chance of who gets hands on him and the lucky one gets a free tech from the Nuclear line of research.

I have no idea on how to script this but one of you guys probably have an idea on that.

what do you think.

 

[unmerged(1973)]

Re: newcommer adding his 5 cent

Originally posted by Ghost_dk

I dont remember the exact date( I can find out), but some time during the german occupation a famous danish Atomic physicist Niels Bohr fleed to the USA and barely escaped german capture.

It was in 1943. Bohr had to escape to sweden in a fishing boat...

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Hmmm, I just checked it on the web. He escaped to UK in 1943 - in 1940-1943 period he was one of the members of resistance.

I would suggest German event (random chance, period 1939-1943, conditions - GER occupy DAN, war, let's say 10% checked every month) "Heisenberg meets Bohr".

In option_a Bohr is not interested in work for Reich and eventually escapes (small bonus in nuke reseach for US (maybe some Level 2 application/applications), option_b (5% chance) Germany got small, similar bonus for their nuke research AND their AI research priority is changed (high priority of rockets is replaced by high priority of nukes).

One problem though - I'm not sure if Heisenberg could actually persuade Bohr to work for Reich - anyone knows more about this meeting?

 

[Ghost_dk]

Is it possible to make it that if he goes to the americans they get a 5% nuclear research bonus and if the germans get him they get only 2,5% because he is working under protest? (they did so often threatening families and such things if they refused)

 

[brandnew70x7]

Re: Mini-poll

Originally posted by Steel
There's a problem with the German-Swedish trade events terminating too often. As a player would you rather...

... be able to make a choice and immediately terminate the trade (perfect player control over resource flow)

- or -

... negotiate one year in advance (realistic as the event really represents one year of deliveries) to stop the trade, thus getting a final delivery as you cancel the trade but also sending away a final amount

I had originally included both options, one has to go. What's your opinion, player control or realism?

There should be consequences for Sweden then. Like Military invasion if they refuse.

 

[Steel]

Re: Re: Mini-poll

Originally posted by Burris
There should be consequences for Sweden then. Like Military invasion if they refuse.

I don't think that cancelling the iron trade is sufficient reason for a DOW and I would hate to see AI Germany attacking Sweden in 1936 because of that.

 

[brandnew70x7]

.... Sweden supplied Steel becuase they had to keep Germany at bay.

 

[Steel]

Originally posted by Burris
.... Sweden supplied Steel becuase they had to keep Germany at bay.

An extremely simplistic view. If it was mere tribute then Germany would not have been paying with gold (among other things).

 

[brandnew70x7]

Of coruse they were paying for it.. but what other alternative did they have? They saw what happened to Norway..

 

[Steel]

No comparison.

 

[unmerged(15982)]

Hi, hate to bring this up again but about the Scandinavian theather in 1939-40...

Major reason for Allies to land in/invade Norway is to cut Swedish ore supplies to Germany right?

Well, you don't really need Narvik for this. Sweden can ship ore from Luleå at the Baltic coast just as easily and more safely, or even use ports further south.
This was, I believe, also done historically.

So logically, any Allied landing/friendly take-over in Norway would include at least an additional plan for "protection"/occupation of Sweden as well, wouldn't it? At least up north.

So should there not be an Allied invasion of Sweden event as well, provided the Allies have their way in Norway?

 

[Steel]

The new Scandinavian undertaking was to consist of two separate but related operations, WILFRED and Plan R 4. WILFRED involved the laying of two mine fields in Norwegian waters, one in the approaches to the Vest Fjord north of Bodo, and the other between Alesund and Bergen, with the pretended laying of a third near Molde. It was to be justified by notes delivered to Norway and Sweden several days in advance protesting the inability of those nations to protect their neutrality. The supposition was that WILFRED would provoke German counteraction, and Plan R 4 was to become effective the moment the Germans landed in Norway "or showed they intended to do so." Narvik and the railroad to the Swedish frontier formed the principal objectives of
Plan R 4.

This occupation was to be carried out at brigade strength, eventually with 18.000 men committed. As you can see the objectives were limited and it is obvious that the committed strength could never have challenged the Swedish Army (400.000 men, soon to become 600.000 men). IMHO it was political brinkmanship and never intended as an invasion of Sweden.

Germany, however, did draw up invasion plans for operations against Sweden.

 

[brandnew70x7]

Originally posted by Steel
This occupation was to be carried out at brigade strength, eventually with 18.000 men committed. As you can see the objectives were limited and it is obvious that the committed strength could never have challenged the Swedish Army (400.000 men, soon to become 600.000 men). IMHO it was political brinkmanship and never intended as an invasion of Sweden.

Germany, however, did draw up invasion plans for operations against Sweden.

Even the allies had plans to invade Sweden :-/

 

[Steel]

Show me.

 

[brandnew70x7]

Its in the Len Deighten book Blood Tears and Folly. I dont remember the specific details, but it was designed to make it so the ore of Sweden didn't become German.

 

[Steel]

Probably referring to the French suggestions which were designed to make Scandinavia the battlefield (to spare the French countryside). The British rejected those ideas and eventually the French-British plans became Wilfred and R.4 as outlined below.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by Ghost_dk
Is it possible to make it that if he goes to the americans they get a 5% nuclear research bonus and if the germans get him they get only 2,5% because he is working under protest? (they did so often threatening families and such things if they refused)

Nah, there is no option for specific tech research bonus - we could simply make difference by giving US more (2-3 apps) and GER less (like 1-2).
Most important change would be of course change in AI research priority - right now German AI wastes a lot of valuable IC on rocketry programme. If that will change, then we could actually see German A-bomb in 1945-46.
But I also heard a teory, that during Heisenberg-Bohr meeting Heisenberg actually suggested, that he silently sabotaged German A-bomb programme. Don't know if it's not a way of self whitening though...

Ok, I would try to script something and post on this forum...

 

[Ghost_dk]

Originally posted by Copper Nicus


Ok, I would try to script something and post on this forum...

That would be great

and if possible the change in priority should be made

look forward to seeing it

 

[unmerged(15982)]

But I also heard a teory, that during Heisenberg-Bohr meeting Heisenberg actually suggested, that he silently sabotaged German A-bomb programme. Don't know if it's not a way of self whitening though...

- It probably was. The fact is that Heisenberg would have his career ruined and his work made impossible in a scientific community imbued by the larger than life figure of Einstein etc, had he not invented some false "resistance" story, but instead stated he simply did his duty to the fatherland, which was exactly what he did.
At least this is what Gitta Sereny says in "Albert Speer: His Battle with Truth" (can't remember the page).
Heisenberg's role in the war years wouldn't have been controversial really (Wittgenstein for example was allowed to return to Germany to fight the war in his day), had it not been for the unique nazi scare of the post war years.

On the other hand, I've also read the plans shown to Bohr at the famous meeting in Copenhagen actually was of a termonuclear reactor, not an A-bomb.

 

[unmerged(14393)]

Originally posted by Burris
Even the allies had plans to invade Sweden :-/

Just the other day I read a Swedish newspaper. They have a column called "Little known facts". This day it was about Churchill and how furious he was at Sweden for shipping iron to the Germans. He wanted to invade Sweden and open up a new front there. However, he was told that this was not a very good idea since the Swedish defence seemed quite potent.