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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

McNaughton

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Finland "Bitter Armistice"

The Russian objectives for the Winter War was primarily to gain back territory lost during the revolution, with a possible bonus of gaining back all of Finland. However, due to Finnish resistence, the Russians could not attain the occupation of the entire country, but did gain back its historic territories.

I say, once the main Finnish line of resistence is broken (is it Krellia, outside of Leningrad?), a form of 'bitter peace' is signed between Finland and Russia, ending the war, and giving Russia only the historic territiories that they gained (even if they occupy more).

The problem is that historically Russia used only a tiny percentage of their force to subdue Finalnd, but a human or even AI can use significantly more to overwhelm Finland. So, increasing Finnish troop strength will not help, as they will be easily overwhelmed by superior numbers.

This might be a fantasy event, but is probably a more realistic one then fantasy, resulting in the Soviet Player having to face war with the Allies should they not accept the bitter peace. The Allies were willing to go to war with the USSR, but were not able to organize themselves until Finland signed an Armistice.

---------------------------------------------------
So, the following chain of events could happen.
---------------------------------------------------

If Russia controls X many Finnish bases, then:

"Bitter Armistice" event fires, which is:

"Accept armistice with Russia/Finland with X Y Z territories going to Russia?" Yes/No (Consequences of No is war with the Allies)

If YES, then:

#1. X Y Z territories go to Russia

#2. Peace is signed

If NO, then:

#1. An event fires that has Finland join the Allies

#2. The Allies are at war with the USSR

#3. Finland gets 2 air groups (1 bomber, 1 fighter) at 1/10 strength (representing immediate Allied aid)**

#4. Finland gains immediate supplies and resources from the Allies (enough to make these 2 air groups full strength, as well as a sufficient surplus)

#5. Finland gains X many supplies from the Allies each week/month.

**The allies could give them an armoured division, like the air groups, at pitifully low strength requiring Finnish manpower and offered supplies to make operational.

----------------------------------------------------

ALSO

If Russia declares war on Finland again any time after the 'bitter armistice', Finland joins the Allies and the Allies declare war on the USSR (with the same immediate effets if they would have said NO during the bitter armistice event, #1-#5). So, the only way for a continuation war to erupt is if Finland decalres war on Russia.

---------------------------------------------------

Possibly an event in the game MUST be included to remind the human/AI that declaring war on Finland is a bad thing to do after the Winter War.
 
Last edited:

Vulture

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Actually, the Swedish army WAS building up... So I don't know if it would be that ahistorical. But I doubt they would have entered if the allies were LOSING... More likely they would have joined when the allies were winning. Some definite blow administering.
 

Steel

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Single source, not verified but I think it's correct.

In 1943, as Germany's war luck had begun to wane, and the opposition among the Swedish opinion against the favors for Germany and Finland increased, as well as the pressure from England and USA, the Swedish Cabinet declared June 29th, 1943 the transit to have to stop before October 1943. August 5th it was officially announced that the transitations were agreed to stop.

Sweden also started train small Danish and Norwegian military units, planned to take part in the re-conquest of Denmark and Norway, and in particular to ensure the immediate establishment of government, law and order after a re-conquest. Officially it was labeled as training of police forces, which was almost true.

At the very end of the war, Sweden made preparations to enter Norway. German troops had devastated many of the northern fjord valleys the previous winter, and as they now continued their doomed struggle also after the capitulation of the German troops in Denmark and The Netherlands (on May 4th) it was discussed if Sweden could contribute to a soon end of the atrocities in Norway. But before any decisions were made Germany's total capitulation on May 7th made it unnecessary.
 

Juba

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Ok I wrote some events that would simulate the possible Nordic defense union but when I start the game up it crashes at 3/4 through "reading scenario". It's my first bunch of events and I'd appreciate any help regarding them

The only things i did was to copy and then rename the 1936 scenario eug file to "eventtest.eug" and add this line there at the end "include = "db\myevents.txt""

I looked at the ready made scenarios and I think they should work but obviously they don't.

This is what I have so far:

##########################
#The Nordic Alliance #
##########################
event = {
id = 171000
random = no
country = FIN
trigger = {
NOT = {
war = { country = SOV }
alliance = { country = GER }
}


#starts event chain for the Nordic alliance

name = "The Nordic Alliance Original"
desc = "In the years leading to the start of World War 2 the Nordic countries attempted to form a Nordic military alliance. Historically it failed."
style = 0

date= { day = 2 month = january year = 1936 }

action_a = {
name = "Lets try"
command = { type = trigger which = 171001 }
command = { type = warentry which = 100 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Forget about it"

}
}

#

event = {
id = 171001
random = no
country = SWE
trigger = {
NOT = {
war = { country = SOV }
alliance = { country = GER }
}


#continues event chain for the Nordic alliance

name = "The Nordic Alliance SWE"
desc = "In the years leading to the start of World War 2 the Nordic countries attempted to form a Nordic military alliance. Historically it failed."
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Lets try"
command = { type = trigger which = 171002 }
command = { type = trigger which = 171006 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Forget about it"

}
}

#

event = {
id = 171002
random = no
country = NOR
trigger = {
NOT = {
war = { country = SOV }
alliance = { country = GER }
}


#starts event chain for the Nordic alliance

name = "The Nordic Alliance NOR"
desc = "In the years leading to the start of World War 2 the Nordic countries attempted to form a Nordic military alliance. Historically it failed."
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Lets try"
command = { type = trigger which = 171003 }
command = { type = sleep which = 171006 }
command = { type = trigger which = 171007 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Forget about it"

}
}

#

event = {
id = 171003
random = no
country = DEN
trigger = {
NOT = {
war = { country = SOV }
alliance = { country = GER }
}


#starts event chain for the Nordic alliance

name = "The Nordic Alliance DEN"
desc = "In the years leading to the start of World War 2 the Nordic countries attempted to form a Nordic military alliance. Historically it failed."
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Lets try"
command = { type = trigger which = 171008 }
command = { type = sleep which = 171007 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Forget about it"

}
}

#########################################################################


event = {
id = 171006
random = no
country = FIN
trigger = {
war = { country = SOV }
NOT = {

alliance = { country = GER }
}


#Nordic alliance goes into action

name = "The Nordic Alliance in action Swe"
desc = "The Nordic Alliance with only Sweden"
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Call for support"
command = { type = trigger which = 171010 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Forget about it"

}
}

#

event = {
id = 171007
random = no
country = FIN
trigger = {
war = { country = SOV }
NOT = {

alliance = { country = GER }
}


#Nordic alliance goes into action

name = "The Nordic Alliance in action Swe + Nor"
desc = "The Nordic Alliance with only Sweden + Nor"
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Call for support"
command = { type = trigger which = 171010 }
command = { type = trigger which = 171011 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Forget about it"

}
}

#

event = {
id = 171008
random = no
country = FIN
trigger = {
war = { country = SOV }
NOT = {

alliance = { country = GER }
}


#Nordic alliance goes into action

name = "The Nordic Alliance in action full"
desc = "The Nordic Alliance with all"
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Call for support"
command = { type = trigger which = 171010 }
command = { type = trigger which = 171011 }
command = { type = trigger which = 171012 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Forget about it"

}
}

#

event = {
id = 171010
random = no
country = SWE


#Nordic alliance goes into action

name = "The Nordic Alliance war Sweden"
desc = "The Nordic Alliance Sweden into war"
style = 0

action_a = {
command = { type = war which = SOV }
command = { type = dissent which = - 20 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Forget about it"
command = { type = dissent which = 20 }
}
}

#

event = {
id = 171011
random = no
country = NOR


#Nordic alliance goes into action

name = "The Nordic Alliance war Norway"
desc = "The Nordic Alliance Norway into war"
style = 0

action_a = {
command = { type = war which = SOV }
command = { type = dissent which = - 20 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Forget about it"
command = { type = dissent which = 20 }
}
}

#

event = {
id = 171012
random = no
country = DEN


#Nordic alliance goes into action

name = "The Nordic Alliance war Denmark "
desc = "The Nordic Alliance Denmark into war"
style = 0

action_a = {
command = { type = war which = SOV }
command = { type = dissent which = - 20 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Forget about it"
command = { type = dissent which = 20 }
}
}
 
Last edited:

Henrik1961

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Sweden and the WWII

Some time during 1943, the Germans decided it was time to round up the jews of Norway and Denmark. Sweden found out and used the national radio network - easily listened to in Denmark - to officially welcome the Danish jews to Sweden on a certain night.

The Danish jews were saved almost everyone on one single night, about 3000 people.

This, and many things more, for instance the end of railroad transfers through Sweden did provoke a military respons from Germany. A plan was set up to invade Sweden in the summer of 1943, using one armoured division from Norway plus additional infantry units in Norway and Finland.

Luckily for Sweden, the catastrophic battle of Kursk ensured that Wehrmacht had better use for their armored troops.

What if an event could be designed on these events for the first half of 1943?
 

Henrik1961

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Addition

In the end of the war, air transport units of the USAF operated from Kallax outside Luleå (Operation Balcken). The missions placed Norwegian troops in the northernmost provinces of Norway, to ensure the independence of Norway. Noone except maybe Stalin wanted a Soviet presence in the Norwegian polar region.

Could something be made of this? In more extreme circumstances, who knows what Sweden might have allowed?
 

Norgesvenn

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It could perhaps be made more "fun" for a Swedish player guarding the neutrality of Sweden?

After all, what they did during the war was quite a feat diplomatically.


An inter-nordic alliance seems fairly unlikely to me, as Sweden, Denmark and Norway were governed by almost pacifist governments.
 

Juba

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Originally posted by Norgesvenn
An inter-nordic alliance seems fairly unlikely to me, as Sweden, Denmark and Norway were governed by almost pacifist governments.

But if they got concerned over the expansion of Germany they could and IIRC they had some sort of an attempt to create a nordic neutral league that would protect against all sorts of aggression.

Perhaps I could add triggers that Poland and/or France has to be in German or Soviet hands. Besides it's not that likely that it will happen and most likely it will occur with only Finland and Sweden. Possibly by inverting the first options it would be even more unlikely but when it does happen it would create some sort of alliance.

Anyway I'd still like some help on getting those events to work as still the game crashes 3/4 through "loading scenario"
 

unmerged(9954)

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But still a event should be made giving Sweden the optin to give full millitary access to Germany or allow supply to German forces in Norway or do nothing wich should give some sort of penalty. Im not sure what Sweden should gain (maybe a dissident decrease). Im also not shure what Germany should gain if Sweden allows Germany to transport supplies with their railroad, maybe a increase in infrastructure in the north?
 

Henrik1961

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Internordic alliance...

Originally posted by Norgesvenn
It could perhaps be made more "fun" for a Swedish player guarding the neutrality of Sweden?

After all, what they did during the war was quite a feat diplomatically.


An inter-nordic alliance seems fairly unlikely to me, as Sweden, Denmark and Norway were governed by almost pacifist governments.

Actually, feelers went out at least for a closer Swed-Fin cooperation, which made the Sovs go through the roof.... they might even have considered it a casus belli.... very unlikely with such an alliance...
 

Vulture

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Someone had luck identifying the crasher in those events?
 

Juba

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Originally posted by Vulture
Someone had luck identifying the crasher in those events?

After a quick count of openers and closers I found there to be one { left open and I fixed that but it still crashes :(.

Edit: Wohoo! I solved the problem!! I solved it by making a new scenario and in the eug file I added the line "include db\testevents.txt" and in that file i put "event = "db\events\myevents.txt" and in myevents.txt I put the actual events:). Now I have to actually make the events work :(.
 
Last edited:

IEX Totalview

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i think we need an "End of the Winter War" stalemate option, so the war doesn't drag on into Barbaroosa. Ie, if the war is still on and the "Finnish Bitter Peace" event has not triggered, then set the war to end in about May 1940 with a return to pre-war borders. Of course, either side could refuse, with appropiate dissent hits.

This may not matter much for a human USSR but it will prevent the computer from fighting the endless Winter War, which hampers it ability to defnd against Germany.
 

Juba

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Originally posted by IEX Totalview
i think we need an "End of the Winter War" stalemate option, so the war doesn't drag on into Barbaroosa. Ie, if the war is still on and the "Finnish Bitter Peace" event has not triggered, then set the war to end in about May 1940 with a return to pre-war borders. Of course, either side could refuse, with appropiate dissent hits.

This may not matter much for a human USSR but it will prevent the computer from fighting the endless Winter War, which hampers it ability to defnd against Germany.

Sounds like a good idea maybe this event would be triggered on May 1st 1940 with option a) peace with Finland return to original borders b) continue war + some dissent