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Procer

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Generalisimo said:
We have a problem here, i know what they are in spanish, but i do not know what they are in english... :eek:o
Libertad e Independencia are "acorazados de río" according to our nomenclature... i do not know what the hell this means in english, so if you can find out it will be great... :D
Be carefull with "Rivadavia", we have a cruiser named "Bernardino Rivadavia" that was finished around 1900, and we have a battleship (well, this could easilly be another "acorazado de rio", so i will try to find the equipment to find out what it really was...) named "Rivadavia" that was finished around 1914/5... so there could be an error between them... :wacko:
I will try to find the date when those ships were decommisioned...
:cool:

Ahhh... i use to have a good source for argentinean battleships from those years. I'll look around. "Acorazado de Rio" means "fluvial battleship" or maybe a big river gunboat, imho. Anyway, maybe they were called like that because they were used in the southern Parana river and in the Rio de la Plata, which are big ponds of water anyway (e.g. the Graf Spee used to hang out there :p )
 

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Semi-Lobster said:
I'd just like to point out Argentina's Libertad and Independencia battleships are 'model 2', they should be 'model 0' as they where made before 1900's and as far as I can tell where never upgraded and where decommisioned in late 1946.

Maybe you are confusing it with frigates (or clippers) from the XIX century. Normally, the argentinean navy repeats the names of its ships. I'll try to find the link to where i know there' s alot of info about argentinean battleships from the 20's up to today.
 

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The Chaco Boreal (Gran Chaco) is a 647,000 sq Km area west of the Paraguay river and East of the Andean foothills in Paraguay, Bolivia and Argentina.
"In the west, near the mountains, the Gran Chaco is a flat, sparsely vegetated, waterless plain. Further east it is a thick, dry, almost impassable thornbrush jungle punctuated by dense stands of quebracho trees and grassy clearings.
There are few people, but myriad biting, stinging insects and many tropical diseases. Prior to 1928, the region's only real value was the tannin extracted from its quebrachos and the meager grazing it provided for cattle.
The Gran Chaco conflict was, in fact, largely a war of engineers. Cutting trails through the jungle, building roads, erecting field fortifications, and, above all, locating and drilling wells were the activities that determined the pace and outcome of battles. The Chaco was largely without potable surface water, even where vegetation was thickest. Before attacks could be mounted or ground held, water for men and horses had to be brought forward by truck. Trucks and gasoline were always in such short supply that their availability decided the timing of offensives or the feasibility of holding ground. Neither belligerent could afford to purchase the vehicles in the requisite numbers, and wastage was high in the rough, roadless Chaco. To make the best use of the trucks, the distance between water sources and the front had to be kept short." (http://www.worldatwar.net/chandelle/v1/v1n3/chaco.html)

Temperatures topped 100 degrees every day!

"The Chaco stretches through the southeastern corner of Bolivia portions of Argentina Paraguay and Brazil. It is a vast (c.250,000 sq mi or 647,500 sq km) parched lowland plain supporting grasslands thorny forests and cactus. The weather is hot, one of the hottest places in South America and flood seasons alternate with drought. The hard clay soil makes agriculture difficult." http://gosouthamerica.about.com/cs/southamerica/a/ParGranChaco.htm

But I was mistaken about the Altitude. My apologies! It is less than 3,500 meters. but it is between 1,000 and 2,500 meters and slopes down toward Paraguay. Once again, lower than I thought at first. sorry. Still a desert though!

P.S. Patagonia is a desert in a similar sense that people once thought the Great Plains of the U.S. were the "Great American Desert". Just because a dry wind blows through the Sandhills of Nebraska (which are beautiful like Patagonia) doesn't make it a "desert". It's just a drier area. But I won't dispute Patagonia as a desert for HoI purposes, on the game's perspective it is a desert. But I wouldn't call it a desert to my friend Tomas from there. Or to any of those crazy Welsh bastards that herd sheep down there ;)
 

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Brazil and WWII

I am currently taking some days off Victoria, so I started to make a sketch of Brazilian events to be submitted to CORE.

Estado Novo+Integralismo
In 37 the Right regimen makes a coup to guarantee the 'right' faction of the govern in place, the intergralism was a moviment almost identical to the benito's facism.
The conseguences would be the lean toward the axis, and some others like dissent hits and etc, this should be composed of 1 or 2 events.

CSN and Petrobras
This was the National Steel Factory (or something like it), it was a project to nationalize the production of oil and steel, the steel factory was a project linked with german factories, but the USA government intervene offering a better deal to guarantee no axis country in america. Again, 1 or 2 events.
The effects should be the inherit of industrial techs, and leaning towards one or another side.

Submarine and Spy War vs Brazil
This was the public motivation to go to war, several comercial liners were sinked (some say that this was fabrication) by u-boats, and there was some spy-hunts which influenced the public against the Nazis. 3 or 4 events.
Affecting the War-Entry and decreasing the dissedents.

Lend-Lease
This was the final agreement between USA and Brazil, to lead Brazil into war with troops and atlantic patrols, also giving access to USA to make a safer cross to Africa. In exchange DD's Naval Patrol Planes, some techs. 1 event.
USA should give 1/2 Naval bomber, 3/4 DD, infantry techs (which were trained to operate along americans).

What do you think?
 

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I would prefer to wait until the tech tree is stable before diving into the whole Lend-Lease issue (for all nations). I really don't want to have to redo the events after multiple changes to the tech trees. But rest assured, L-L is in teh works.
 

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Junkyard_Pope said:
P.S. Patagonia is a desert in a similar sense that people once thought the Great Plains of the U.S. were the "Great American Desert". Just because a dry wind blows through the Sandhills of Nebraska (which are beautiful like Patagonia) doesn't make it a "desert". It's just a drier area. But I won't dispute Patagonia as a desert for HoI purposes, on the game's perspective it is a desert. But I wouldn't call it a desert to my friend Tomas from there. Or to any of those crazy Welsh bastards that herd sheep down there ;)

Thanks for the data on the Chaco Boreal.

About the Patagonia, a desert is what it is called in the Welsh Colony's schools down there and on any argentinean school. :D At least that is what they teach in the capital. Ask him!

You may find many populated areas, but in overall, it's just a beautiful emptiness of grasslands with a somewhat arid terrain only suitable for sheeps in some areas closer to the mountains and to the ocean. There are some "estancias" here and there in the middle, but it looks more like a steppe with a harsher climate. The cities and towns are found mostly near the atlantic coast to the east and to the Andean Patagonia to the west where you find beautiful mountains and volcanoes. Also the areas bordering rivers are good for fruits.

That's what my memory said, but now you made go dig into my old school books. :rolleyes:
 

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South American OOB suggestions, once again, thanks to Der Bismark's site:

The Bolivian army was 15 000. It consisted of 12 infantry regiments (each of two battalions), six cavalry regiments (each of four squadrons), three mountain artillery regiments (each of two batteries), a field artillery regiment (also consisting of two batteries), six engineer battalions. There were also small cadre infantry units known as the columnas stationed at the chief towns (each one had 100 to 200 soldiers). Somewhat bigger detachments of frontier guards (of 300 men each) performed security and border guard functions in the country's peripheral regions.

I think Bolivia should only have one militia division and two infantry divisions. The one militia, artillery and the cavalry are fine.

--------------------------------

Chile should have three infantry divisions, one of which should have an engineer attachment.

------------------------------

Columbia's military consisted of, In 1939, 16 000 troops. It was made up of six mixed brigades (each mixed brigade had three battalions), one cavalry group of three squadrons, one artillery group of three batteries, one engineer battalion, and two services. Also The police numbered 5 053 officers. In 1939 the navy had a total of approximately 1 850 personnel (including naval infantry); it possessed two modern destroyers (both purchased in Portugal), four river gunboats, one seagoing gunboat, three coastguard patrol vessels, and several customs service motor launches. The naval infantry (marines) was made up of a few companies.

What was this seagoing gunboat? Columbia should have two infantry divisions, one with artillery and one with an engineer brigade. Also they should have a half strength militia (the Police)

-----------------------------------

'The peace treaty signed by Paraguay in Buenos Aires stipulated that the country's peace-time armed forces could not exceed 8 000 personnel; consequently, Paraguay was obligated to maintain the size of its armed forces at around 8 000 troops for the entire duration of the Second World War. During WWII the standing army of Paraguay consisted of four infantry regiments, one cavalry regiment, and two artillery batteries. In order to compensate for these small numbers, a continuous programme of improvements in the army's organizational structure, armaments, and equipment was constantly implemented'

Paraguay's tiny army should only be one infantry division

---------------------------------------

Peru, at the beginning of WWII the country was divided into five military districts, each of them maintained its own division. Each military district (usually) fielded two regiments of infantry (each infantry regiment had two battalions, while each of the battalions had a machine gun company), one topographical section, one medical section, one commissariat section, one or two cavalry regiments (two squadrons each), and one regiment of mountain artillery. The army's composition in 1938 was as follows: nine infantry regiments, five artillery regiments, five cavalry regiments, four sapper battalions, one anti-aircraft battalion, and one signalling battalion. The army's personnel officially amounted to 1 343 officers and 10 860 other ranks.

So Peru should have five infantry divisions (one of which should be an artillery brigade), one cavalry and one mountain division.

Brazil and Uruguay are fine except the Uruguayan navy is baffling
 

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Uruguayan navy

Semi-Lobster said:
the Uruguayan navy is baffling
here is a reference site, but its in spanish
http://www.armada.gub.uy/[url] thi...arships.web4u.cz/typy.php?language=E&stat=URU
 
Last edited:

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Republica Oriental del Uruguay oob

URUGUAY, Eastern Republic of Uruguay, Republica Oriental del Uruguay.

Contemporary National Flag: Not yet available.

Population: 2 123 000 (in 1938), 2 300 000 (in 1947). Borders with Argentina and Brazil. It has access to the Atlantic Ocean.

Area: 186 926 squared kilometers.

Capital City: Montevideo

Overview: During the presidenture of General A. Baldomir, whose cadency lasted from 1938 until 1942, the country experienced a period of bourgeoisie democracy. In the early years of WWII Uruguay maintained neutrality. This changed when, on the basis of the resolutions of the Pan-American Conference in 1942, Uruguay decided to terminate diplomatic relations with the Axis; on 21/02/1945 it formally declared war on both Germany and Japan. Uruguay is one of the co-founding members of U.N.

Armed Forces: At the time of the war's eruption the regular army of Uruguay numbered 9 000 soldiers. The enlistment was on purely voluntary basis. It was composed of four cadre infantry divisions, two cavalry brigades, as well as technical and service sub-units. During the WWII years, the more detailed breakdown of the army was as follows: 19 line battalions, four rifle companies, nine cavalry regiments, three field artillery regiments (each one had three batteries), a fortress artillery company, a machine gun company, one engineer battalion, and one bearer company. The air force did not constituted a separate branch of the armed forces, but instead it formed an integral part of the army; it consisted of three obsoletely equipped flights with a total of 45 planes (in 1937). The Uruguayan navy possessed one small battle ship, a surveying vessel, three fairly modern patrol vessels, two training ships, and a small number of minor/auxiliary ships. The navy's air force component consisted of three flying boats. During the course of the Second World War, the Uruguayan armed forces were partially modernized as a consequence of military shipments from the U.S.A., which were part of the Lend-Lease military loans. The regular police was 5 000-strong, while a mounted police formation called Guardia Republicana (Republican Guard) had 400 members. The fire brigade of 360 firefighters also performed police functions.
 

Der Bismarck

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Uruguay Navy

Uruguay
Development of the Navy
The Uruguayan Navy was formally established in 1860, and its forces saw action during the War of the Triple Alliance, principally in a transport capacity. The modern Uruguayan Navy, however, owes its professional development to the establishment in 1885 of the Military Academy, which offered training to naval and other officers. By 1910 navy strength was some 1,300 in all ranks, and vessels included gunboats (some armed with torpedoes), steamers, and various other small craft. The separate Naval Academy was established in 1916.

After World War I, many of the navy's aging vessels were withdrawn from service, and replacement was slow. The Naval Air Service was formed in 1925, but the first aircraft were not acquired until 1930. The only significant purchase of vessels between the wars was three patrol vessels and a training ship. Personnel declined to fewer than 1,000.

After the outbreak of World War II and the December 1939 Battle of the Río de la Plata, the government decided to strengthen the navy and the Naval Air Service (see Baldomir and the End of Dictatorship , ch. 1). During the 1940s and 1950s, the navy, and naval aviation in particular, benefited from United States military assistance. In 1959 Uruguay--along with the United States, Argentina, Brazil, and Venezuela--participated in the first large multinational exercise involving Latin American navies. Although the air arm (renamed the Naval Aviation Service in 1951) accounted for 50 percent of naval personnel in 1952, by the late 1960s naval air assets had begun to be withdrawn from service, and few modern replacements were acquired. At the same time, the fleet underwent a modest expansion, and a battalion of marines was added. During the 1970s, the government acquired a small number of vessels to replace aging equipment. In 1981 three large patrol craft were purchased new from France. The sole addition in the late 1980s was a frigate purchased used from the French Navy and commissioned in late 1988. In early 1990, the Uruguayan Navy received two decommissioned United States Coast Guard cutters for coastal patrol and antinarcotics work under a United States Department of State antinarcotics program. Acquisitions were insufficient to offset the number of retired vessels, however, and a further reduction of the navy's assets seemed likely as more vessels had to be withdrawn from service.

Data as of December 1990

from library of congress country studies
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:mad:field(DOCID+uy0144)
 

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Well I got the info from your site so you don't have to post it again! :D

I'm looking for specifics on these ships, especially these training ships they mentioned at the tripod site
 

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I was asking for the ship they specifiyed, if it was the Uruguayian Navy then I know what it is, what baffles me what where the 'small battle ship' they can possibly be talking about the Uruguay! It's not event 2000t! And if they are it's rather odd! 'Also what where these 'three fairly modern patrol vessels and two training ships', I assume the patrol ships where the Paysaldu class, can you give any specifics on it, like displacement and such? Also, did the Uruguay have any armour,we may could up it to protected cruiser if it did
 

Der Bismarck

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Rou Amethyst

Semi-Lobster said:
I was asking for the ship they specifiyed, if it was the Uruguayian Navy then I know what it is, what baffles me what where the 'small battle ship' they can possibly be talking about the Uruguay! It's not event 2000t! And if they are it's rather odd! 'Also what where these 'three fairly modern patrol vessels and two training ships', I assume the patrol ships where the Paysaldu class, can you give any specifics on it, like displacement and such? Also, did the Uruguay have any armour,we may could up it to protected cruiser if it did

I found a 1903 Uruguayian stamp showing the warship "AMETHYST", hope this is helpful.
 

Semi-Lobster

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Has anybody made any head way in the researching the rise of Paraguayian Fascism? The only problem is finding ministers for the pre-revolution cabinet. The current Paraguayian cabinet practically IS the Fascist cabinet and after the revolution they should be in power, and of course, there should be no elections afterwards. Anybody who can speak Spanish would probably have more luck at finding info then me.