If it would work (wich I think might possible) it would be neat, but they should have a rather short range and high naval attack, maybe we can make tactical missiles as well this way(with high tactical attack)???
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Naval Missiles
The more I think about this, the less I like the idea of an anti-ship missile to add to the game. The problem with missile technology of the time was targeting. Due to the difficulties in targeting, an anti-ship missile would be unable to engage a target that was over the horizon due to the inability to send correction signals to the missile. Even the big Russian (Soviet) missiles didn't come overcome this problem till well into the 60s or 70s making it well past the time period that we are looking at. That limits missiles to the ranges that could be expected of heavy naval rifles.
I do like the idea though of seeing if can come with a way of mounting long range land attack missiles on large warships that would be nice. That is a technology that was looked at historically.
Just my two cents on the matter. MDow
The more I think about this, the less I like the idea of an anti-ship missile to add to the game. The problem with missile technology of the time was targeting. Due to the difficulties in targeting, an anti-ship missile would be unable to engage a target that was over the horizon due to the inability to send correction signals to the missile. Even the big Russian (Soviet) missiles didn't come overcome this problem till well into the 60s or 70s making it well past the time period that we are looking at. That limits missiles to the ranges that could be expected of heavy naval rifles.
I do like the idea though of seeing if can come with a way of mounting long range land attack missiles on large warships that would be nice. That is a technology that was looked at historically.
Just my two cents on the matter. MDow
Well, nuclear submarines are in the game and so are APDU-shells, wich were both way out of the time-frame, so I guess we could add this as well. Maybe if you have very high electronics, rocket and some naval doctrine??? (maybe even some air tech to simulate targetting...). IMO these techs to launch missiles from ships should be very difficult to obtain anyway.
Naval Artillery - addon to artillery_tech.txt
Ok, here we go...
Ok, here we go...
Code:
# Level 0 guns
application = { # 102mm Naval Gun
id = 6450
name = "102mm Naval Gun"
desc = ""
required = { }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60
effects = {
command = { }
}
}
application = { # 127mm Naval Gun
id = 6451
name = "127mm Naval Gun"
desc = ""
required = { 6450 }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60
effects = {
command = { }
}
}
application = { # 152mm Naval Gun
id = 14014
name = "152mm Naval Gun"
desc = ""
required = { 6451 }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60
effects = {
command = { }
}
}
application = { # 203mm Naval Gun
id = 14015
name = "203mm Naval Gun"
desc = ""
required = { }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60
effects = {
command = { }
}
}
application = { # 254mm Naval Gun
id = 6452
name = "254mm Naval Gun"
desc = ""
required = { }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60
effects = {
command = { }
}
}
application = { # 305mm Naval Gun
id = 6453
name = "305mm Naval Gun"
desc = ""
required = { 6453 }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60
effects = {
command = { }
}
}
# Level 4 naval guns
application = { # 356mm Naval Gun
id = 6454
name = "356mm Naval Gun"
desc = ""
required = { 6453 }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60
effects = {
command = { }
}
}
application = { # 406mm Naval Gun
id = 6455
name = "406mm Naval Gun"
desc = ""
required = { 6454 }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60
effects = {
command = { }
}
}
# Level 6 naval guns
application = { # 460mm Naval Gun
id = 6456
name = "460mm Naval Gun"
desc = ""
required = { 6455 }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60
effects = {
command = { }
}
}
application = { # Semi-Automatic 203mm Naval Gun
id = 14402
name = "Semi-Automatic 203mm Naval Gun"
desc = ""
required = { 14015 }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60
effects = {
command = { }
}
}
application = { # Lightweight 305mm Naval Gun
id = 140403
name = "Lightweight 305mm Naval Gun"
desc = ""
required = { 14402 }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60
effects = {
command = { }
}
}#s
Shouldn't all of these have a number like 14xxx to be in the artillery tech page? I already have techs in the naval tech tree that will be required before these can be researched. MDow
Shouldn't all of these have a number like 14xxx to be in the artillery tech page? I already have techs in the naval tech tree that will be required before these can be researched. MDow
Re: #s
It's not necessary.
It was more convinient for me, since I try to use MKSheppard mod id's. I simply switched his gun tech's for yours.
One more thing - you have to dump all existing naval gun techs in artillery_tech.txt in order to make it work - and add some pics of for new techs.
I also send you pm - I've got problems with using data you posted earlier.
It's not necessary.
It was more convinient for me, since I try to use MKSheppard mod id's. I simply switched his gun tech's for yours.
One more thing - you have to dump all existing naval gun techs in artillery_tech.txt in order to make it work - and add some pics of for new techs.
I also send you pm - I've got problems with using data you posted earlier.
Naval Event Ideas
I have been trying to think of some events that would lend some feel to the naval world. Other than some events allowing minor nations to purchase small warships on the "market" which I have seen around, I had this as an idea...
London Naval Conference
In 1936 the major powers met to discuss further limitations on the production of warships. This resulted in limits on the size and armament of cruisers and battleships. Japan refused to sign the treaty negating many of the provisions of the treaty.
Japan should have the first choice to agree to the treaty or not since historically she was the problem. Her default choice should be to not sign and acctivate a "Yamato event" that would later give her the Yamato and Musashi with out letting her jump the tech levels to Super Battleship. She should also get the battlecruiser Hiei which was remilitarized after this.
Other countries should have the choice to sign or not as well, with benfits.
If a country chooses to sign it would deactivate the treaty heavy cruiser and all later post treaty designs because of the limitation to 152mm guns and displacement limits. These restrictions would be removed if the country went to war.
I don't know how to code this up, but figured it might make an interesting event early. MDow
I have been trying to think of some events that would lend some feel to the naval world. Other than some events allowing minor nations to purchase small warships on the "market" which I have seen around, I had this as an idea...
London Naval Conference
In 1936 the major powers met to discuss further limitations on the production of warships. This resulted in limits on the size and armament of cruisers and battleships. Japan refused to sign the treaty negating many of the provisions of the treaty.
Japan should have the first choice to agree to the treaty or not since historically she was the problem. Her default choice should be to not sign and acctivate a "Yamato event" that would later give her the Yamato and Musashi with out letting her jump the tech levels to Super Battleship. She should also get the battlecruiser Hiei which was remilitarized after this.
Other countries should have the choice to sign or not as well, with benfits.
If a country chooses to sign it would deactivate the treaty heavy cruiser and all later post treaty designs because of the limitation to 152mm guns and displacement limits. These restrictions would be removed if the country went to war.
I don't know how to code this up, but figured it might make an interesting event early. MDow
Naval Tech Tree Update
Since I didn't hear any protests from the masses over the tech tree, I have moved on to debugging and modifing the scenario files to accept the new tech tree. I have finished up the US right now and am moving on to the other major nations. I am only changing the OOB of a nation when I know for sure that it is wrong (ie Brooklyn class cruisers in 1936). Let me know if there is a country that you are interested in and I'll beam you the moded files so you can make it campatible. MDow
Since I didn't hear any protests from the masses over the tech tree, I have moved on to debugging and modifing the scenario files to accept the new tech tree. I have finished up the US right now and am moving on to the other major nations. I am only changing the OOB of a nation when I know for sure that it is wrong (ie Brooklyn class cruisers in 1936). Let me know if there is a country that you are interested in and I'll beam you the moded files so you can make it campatible. MDow
i have no protest on the new tech tree.
But all the new models, will it make a diference in the game?
i have seen "Helicopter Carrier", "Aviation Carrier", etc... does it make a diference in game? (i haven't looked in detail to their characteristics, but i wanted to know if there is a "real" noticeable diference between all of them).
But all the new models, will it make a diference in the game?
i have seen "Helicopter Carrier", "Aviation Carrier", etc... does it make a diference in game? (i haven't looked in detail to their characteristics, but i wanted to know if there is a "real" noticeable diference between all of them).
All those are very advanced techs, so I would not worry too much - game is usually finished around 1942-43.
Also AI is usually very, very bad in naval development - all AI's concentrate to keep un in land tech rece and leave navy fairy unchanged (USA and Japan are a bit different).
If some of them would become to powerfull, we will tweak them.
BTW, I'm trying to write some post-war AI's (USA after victory over Japan, Soviet after victory over Germany, Germany after Barbarossa and Sealion). I hope you are interested?
Also AI is usually very, very bad in naval development - all AI's concentrate to keep un in land tech rece and leave navy fairy unchanged (USA and Japan are a bit different).
If some of them would become to powerfull, we will tweak them.
BTW, I'm trying to write some post-war AI's (USA after victory over Japan, Soviet after victory over Germany, Germany after Barbarossa and Sealion). I hope you are interested?
the problem is when we can be sure that victory is achieved...
maybe Germany was wipped out, but some axis members are there...
The USA AI is one of the most "general" AIs that there is in the game, it must control 2 fronts and both are very diferent...
But, we surelly need a "new AI" for the post-WW2 period...
Yeah, but who cares about Argentina?
I think that for example SOV really needs new AI after victory over Germany (as well as UK and France). More IC spent on navy and air, more balanced research, new borders and pririties and so on.
If I write something, I'll send you.
the problem appears if a player is controlling another axis nation, like Romania or Yugoslavia and they manage to survive, even after Germany is wipped out of the map.... they must not be ignored by the new AI... or the new AI must wait until ALL EUROPEAN AXIS members are defeated.Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Yeah, but who cares about Argentina?
I think that for example SOV really needs new AI after victory over Germany (as well as UK and France). More IC spent on navy and air, more balanced research, new borders and pririties and so on.
If I write something, I'll send you.
10 posts to reach the 3000
Originally posted by Generalisimo
the problem appears if a player is controlling another axis nation, like Romania or Yugoslavia and they manage to survive, even after Germany is wipped out of the map.... they must not be ignored by the new AI... or the new AI must wait until ALL EUROPEAN AXIS members are defeated.
Nah, not ignored, but not overestimated either - even the best player would not win war with superpower with Romanian or Hungarian Army. And if he will - well, good for him!
Originally posted by Generalisimo
Spammer
It's a valid point about AI-switching and "forgetting" about unfinished wars, especially where there is no shared land border. Maybe extensive use of flags can help with this, there was a point made by Math Guy about building a threat table and evaluating it continually. Need to make sure that AI switching doesn't cause issues though (like reset build queues, cancelled R&D, disbanded units).
Naval Models
Many of the models that you mentioned are mainly there for historical flavor more than any real need for them tactically.
The aviation cruiser has a little more surface attack than a carrier but carries a smaller air wing. It is a hypothetical design based on design studies done by the US Navy in the 30s. I am sure that other navies looked at the posibility.
The helicopter carrier is basically an upgrade for the escort carrier that is more designed for hunting submarines than engaging in combat.
There are some nuclear powered designs for nuclear powered gun cruisers in case a nation doesn't get missile tech before they get nuclear power. They aren't any different than their conventional powered brethren in terms of combat power or defensive power. MDow
Many of the models that you mentioned are mainly there for historical flavor more than any real need for them tactically.
The aviation cruiser has a little more surface attack than a carrier but carries a smaller air wing. It is a hypothetical design based on design studies done by the US Navy in the 30s. I am sure that other navies looked at the posibility.
The helicopter carrier is basically an upgrade for the escort carrier that is more designed for hunting submarines than engaging in combat.
There are some nuclear powered designs for nuclear powered gun cruisers in case a nation doesn't get missile tech before they get nuclear power. They aren't any different than their conventional powered brethren in terms of combat power or defensive power. MDow
More naval events
There was a discussion in another thread about scripting some events to simulate the transfer of naval vessels to minor nations that were unable to build their own. I figured that I would bring it up over in this thread (since this is probably where it belongs anyway) to see if there are people interesting in scripting some of those events. MDow
There was a discussion in another thread about scripting some events to simulate the transfer of naval vessels to minor nations that were unable to build their own. I figured that I would bring it up over in this thread (since this is probably where it belongs anyway) to see if there are people interesting in scripting some of those events. MDow
Re: More naval events
the events could be done easilly, i think that the tech tree has more priority now, and the starting OOB with the new tech tree.
Just saw this post and would like to help test if that is still needed. (I am a bit of a History buff myself)
Just let me know the details.
---Indiana
Just let me know the details.
---Indiana