C.O.R.E HOI - Italy

Generalisimo · Mar 12, 2003

well, i have to see the events to give my opinion, but i can tell you this:
just put an event with:
a) Defend Italy!, Germany receives northern italy, and receives them as "core provinces".
b) Create RSI, RSI is created, germany receive military access to there.

the AI will always choose the first option, so if the player want to create the RSI, they have the option.

Generalisimo · Mar 12, 2003

Originally posted by emperor dennis
This is what I think should happen for Italy:
If all Ethiopian provinces, Eritrea and Somalia are controlled by the allies Ethiopia would be reinstated. It would receive it's old territory while Eritrea and Somalia would go to the UK and Ethiopia would join the allies, give up military access,...

the ethiopian part is done, check the proper thread to know more about it. Aetius studied that and send me all the material to make the events.

unmerged(2826) · Mar 12, 2003

OK, but how about Gustav and Gothic lines? Where they real fortifications or just geographical ones??? I don't seem to find anything on it but I think they had real fortifications as well.

McNaughton · Mar 12, 2003

I see the German lines in Italy to be 'primarily' natural. The actual fortifications that the Germans built would have been about a level 1 or max, level 2 fort. Monte Cassino required virtually no work on the part of the Germans to create a massive fortress. Most of the difficulty of advancing was due to terrain, which made it difficult to move, but also generally suited the defender.

Possibly there should be an event that creates one instant fortress where Monte Cassino was, representing allied bombing creating a fortress where there once was none.

I did add an event that would not only puppet the RSI, but give military access to Germany (however, will they defend Italy is another question). I think that maybe giving the RSI 'token' northern provinces might be best, as in all of my tests the RSI sends everything they have against Southern Italy.

Also, I don't think that any other territory should be 'given' to Germany/RSI other then Northern Italy. Realistically, the Axis had to fight for Italian territories in the Agean sea and Balkans, resulting in thousands of Italians killed, and tens of thousands imprisoned. It also required that a lot of Germans be diverted from the front lines to take care of this new Italian threat. I have tested out the game where Italy keeps its Balkan provinces, and they are quickly swallowed up by their enemy neighbours (Bulgaria and Germany eat up these provinces within the month after battling with Italian forces).

McNaughton · Mar 12, 2003

Italy Surrenders with an RSI

---revised below---

Steel · Mar 12, 2003

Originally posted by emperor dennis
OK, but how about Gustav and Gothic lines? Where they real fortifications or just geographical ones??? I don't seem to find anything on it but I think they had real fortifications as well.

I'm not that well read on the Italian campaign, but I think the Gustav line was constructed by Germany along the Garigliano and Rapido rivers, AFAIK in 1944 or at the earliest in 1943.

The Gothic line was built from La Spezia to Pesaro in the spring of '44. Mostly it was dirt and log shelters with mines and barbed wire to break up infantry assault, with tank ditches in vulnerable areas.

In game terms, the Italian or German player can opt to create these lines but I don't think we need an event for it.

McNaughton · Mar 12, 2003

Italy Surrenders with no RSI

---New Revised Below---

Vulture · Mar 12, 2003

Is there not a mistake here?

Code:

command = { type = leave_alliance = GER }

Shouldn't there be a which? I can be wrong though

Generalisimo · Mar 12, 2003

Code:
Originally posted by Vulture
Is there not a mistake here?

Code:

command = { type = leave_alliance = GER }

Shouldn't there be a which? I can be wrong though

nope, but the command is still wrong, it is just:
command = { type = leave_alliance }
nothing more, because you can only be in one alliance at the time.

Vulture · Mar 12, 2003

ROFL

Generalisimo · Mar 12, 2003

@McNaughton:

why you put in ITA event:
command = { type = control which = GER value = 563 } #Bolzano
and then in GER event:
command = { type = control which = u01 value = 563 } #Bolzano
this way the province remains as part of Italy

???

i don't get it...
i think that THAT is the only province that should remain under german control because the germans have claims over there, so i think it will be better to write:
in ITA event:
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 563 } #Bolzano
and then in GER event:
command = { type = addcore which = 563 } #Bolzano

i think this way it is better.

also, a recommendation:
if you use this:
command = { type = peace which = ENG value = 1 }
command = { type = peace which = SOV value = 1 }
you are getting ITA out of the alliance because of the "value = 1", so there is no need for "leave_alliance" command.

Vulture · Mar 12, 2003

Originally posted by Generalisimo
i don't get it...
i think that THAT is the only province that should remain under german control because the germans have claims over there, so i think it will be better to write:
in ITA event:
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 563 } #Bolzano
and then in GER event:
command = { type = addcore which = 563 } #Bolzano

i think this way it is better.

It is...

McNaughton · Mar 12, 2003

Italy RSI

Here is the current RSI event. I gave them only a four North Western Provinces of Italy, giving the rest to Germany (who had 100% control over these regions).

Also, if I remove the leave_alliance event, it really messes up the entire event, and does not get Italy into the war, so it must stay in the event.

Code:

#################
# Regime Change #
#################

event = { 
	id = 462005
	random = no
	country = ITA
	
	trigger = {
		NOT = {
		control = { province = 1085 = -1 } #Tripoli not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1097 = -1 } #Tobruk not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1087 = -1 } #Sirt not controlled by Italy
		OR = {
		control = { province = 898 = -1 } #Siracusa not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 897 = -1 } #Messina not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 903 = -1 } #Cosenza not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 901 = -1 } #Napoli not controlled by Italy
		}
		}
		}
	
	name = "Failure of Fascism"
	desc = "Due to failure on all fronts King Victor Emmanuel demands the arrest of Mussolini."
	style = 0
	
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
	offset = 1
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }
	
	action_a = {
		name = "Arrest Mussolini" #Pro-Allied regime takes power
		command = { type = headofgovernment which = 3011 }
		command = { type = foreignminister which = 3012 }
		command = { type = armamentminister which = 3013 }
		command = { type = ministerofsecurity which = 3014 }
		command = { type = ministerofintelligence which = 3015 }
		command = { type = chiefofstaff which = 3016 }
		command = { type = chiefofarmy which = 3017 }
		command = { type = chiefofnavy which = 3018 }
		command = { type = chiefofair which = 3019 }
		command = { type = dissent value = -10 }
		command = { type = alignment which = democratic value = 200 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 462006 } #Italy Surrenders
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Keep Mussolini in power"
		command = { type = dissent value = 10 }
		command = { type = manpowerpool value = -200 } #Desertions
	}
}

####################
# Italy Surrenders #
####################

event = { 
	id = 462006
	random = no
	country = ITA
	
	# Triggered by Action A of 'Regime Change' Event
	
	name = "Decisive Decision"
	desc = "The Allies are at the gates of our nation.  What shall we do?"
	style = 0
	
	action_a = {
		name = "Surrender to the Allies"
		command = { type = leave_alliance }
		command = { type = peace which = ENG value = 1 }
		command = { type = peace which = SOV value = 1 }
		command = { type = independence which = u01 value = 1 } #RSI created
		command = { type = dissent value = -10 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 563 } #Bolzano
		command = { type = control which = GER value = 567 } #Venezia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 905 } #Bologna
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 906 } #Frienze
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 907 } #Ancona
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 910 } #Parma
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 912 } #Milano
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 913 } #La Spezia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 932 } #Torino
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 933 } #Genoa
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3002 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3003 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3004 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3005 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3006 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3008 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3009 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3010 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3031 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3032 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3033 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3034 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3035 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3036 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3037 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3038 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3039 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3040 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3041 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6046 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6052 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6083 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6090 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6104 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6212 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6214 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6218 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6005 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6029 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6055 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6069 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6107 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6135 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6136 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6155 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6156 } #German POW
		command = { type = trigger which = 462007 } #German 'Rescue Mussolini' Event
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Remain as a part of the Axis"
		command = { type = dissent value = 20 }
		command = { type = manpowerpool value = -500 } #Desertions
	}
}

####################
# Rescue Mussolini #
####################

event = { 
	id = 462007
	random = no
	country = GER
	
	trigger = {
		exists = u01
		}
	
	name = "Repubblica Sociale Italiana"
	desc = "The Germans established a puppet RSI government in Northern Italy under the nominal command of a rescued Mussolini."
	style = 0
	
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
	offset = 4
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }

	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = addcore which = 563 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = u01 value = 912 } #Milano
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = u01 value = 913 } #La Spezia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = u01 value = 932 } #Torino
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = u01 value = 933 } #Genoa
		command = { type = make_puppet which = u01 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 462008 } #RSI
	}
}

#######
# RSI #
#######

event = { 
	id = 462008
	random = no
	country = u01
	
	# Triggered by Action A of 'Rescue Mussolini' Event
	
	name = "Repubblica Sociale Italiana"
	desc = "The Germans established a puppet RSI government in Northern Italy under the nominal command of a rescued Mussolini."
	style = 0
	
	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = access which = GER }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 912 }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 913 }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 932 }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 933 }
		command = { type = alliance which = GER }
		command = { type = access which = GER }
		command = { type = trigger which = 462009 } #RSI
	}
}

##########################
# Italy Joins the Allies #
##########################

event = { 
	id = 462009
	random = no
	country = ITA
	
	# Triggered by Action A of 'RSI' Event
	
	name = "Italy joins the Allies"
	desc = "With half of Italy occupied by Germany and the RSI, the Italian government joins the Allies."
	style = 0

	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = alliance which = ENG }
		command = { type = capital which = 893 } #Taranto
		command = { type = access which = ENG }
		command = { type = access which = FRA }
		command = { type = access which = CAN }
		command = { type = access which = USA }
		command = { type = access which = AST }
		command = { type = access which = NZL }
		command = { type = access which = SAF }
		command = { type = access which = BEL }
		command = { type = access which = HOL }
	}
}

McNaughton · Mar 12, 2003

Italy No RSI

Most changes in this event are like the one above.

Code:

#################
# Regime Change #
#################

event = { 
	id = 462005
	random = no
	country = ITA
	
	trigger = {
		NOT = {
		control = { province = 1085 = -1 } #Tripoli not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1097 = -1 } #Tobruk not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1087 = -1 } #Sirt not controlled by Italy
		OR = {
		control = { province = 898 = -1 } #Siracusa not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 897 = -1 } #Messina not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 903 = -1 } #Cosenza not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 901 = -1 } #Napoli not controlled by Italy
		}
		}
		}
	
	name = "Failure of Fascism"
	desc = "Due to failure on all fronts King Victor Emmanuel demands the arrest of Mussolini."
	style = 0
	
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
	offset = 1
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }
	
	action_a = {
		name = "Arrest Mussolini" #Pro-Allied regime takes power
		command = { type = headofgovernment which = 3011 }
		command = { type = foreignminister which = 3012 }
		command = { type = armamentminister which = 3013 }
		command = { type = ministerofsecurity which = 3014 }
		command = { type = ministerofintelligence which = 3015 }
		command = { type = chiefofstaff which = 3016 }
		command = { type = chiefofarmy which = 3017 }
		command = { type = chiefofnavy which = 3018 }
		command = { type = chiefofair which = 3019 }
		command = { type = dissent value = -10 }
		command = { type = alignment which = democratic value = 200 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 462006 } #Italy Surrenders
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Keep Mussolini in power"
		command = { type = dissent value = 10 }
		command = { type = manpowerpool value = -200 } #Desertions
	}
}

####################
# Italy Surrenders #
####################

event = { 
	id = 462006
	random = no
	country = ITA
	
	# Triggered by Action A of 'Regime Change' Event
	
	name = "Decisive Decision"
	desc = "The Allies are at the gates of our nation.  What shall we do?"
	style = 0
	
	action_a = {
		name = "Surrender to the Allies"
		command = { type = leave_alliance }
		command = { type = peace which = ENG value = 1 }
		command = { type = peace which = SOV value = 1 }
		command = { type = dissent value = -10 }
		command = { type = control which = GER value = 567 } #Venezia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 905 } #Bologna
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 906 } #Frienze
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 907 } #Ancona
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 910 } #Parma
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 912 } #Milano
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 913 } #La Spezia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 932 } #Torino
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 933 } #Genoa
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3002 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3003 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3004 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3005 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3006 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3008 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3009 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3010 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3031 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3032 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3033 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3034 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3035 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3036 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3037 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3038 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3039 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3040 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3041 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6046 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6052 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6083 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6090 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6104 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6212 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6214 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6218 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6005 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6029 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6055 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6069 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6107 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6135 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6136 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6155 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6156 } #German POW
		command = { type = trigger which = 462007 } #German 'Rescue Mussolini' Event
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Remain as a part of the Axis"
		command = { type = dissent value = 20 }
		command = { type = manpowerpool value = -500 } #Desertions
	}
}

####################
# Rescue Mussolini #
####################

event = { 
	id = 462007
	random = no
	country = GER
	
	# Triggered by Action A of 'Italy Surrenders' Event
	
	name = "Repubblica Sociale Italiana"
	desc = "The Germans established a puppet RSI government in Northern Italy under the nominal command of a rescued Mussolini."
	style = 0
	
	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = addcore which = 563 }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 933 }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 905 }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 912 }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 932 }
	}
}

##########################
# Italy Joins the Allies #
##########################

event = { 
	id = 462009
	random = no
	country = ITA
	
	trigger = {
		event = 462008
		}
	
	name = "Italy joins the Allies"
	desc = "With half of Italy occupied by Germany and the RSI, the Italian government joins the Allies."
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
	offset = 1
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }

	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = alliance which = ENG }
		command = { type = capital which = 893 } #Taranto
		command = { type = access which = ENG }
		command = { type = access which = FRA }
		command = { type = access which = CAN }
		command = { type = access which = USA }
		command = { type = access which = AST }
		command = { type = access which = NZL }
		command = { type = access which = SAF }
		command = { type = access which = BEL }
		command = { type = access which = HOL }
	}
}

McNaughton · Mar 12, 2003

Originally posted by Generalisimo

if you use this:
command = { type = peace which = ENG value = 1 }
command = { type = peace which = SOV value = 1 }
you are getting ITA out of the alliance because of the "value = 1", so there is no need for "leave_alliance" command.

The reason for both the "leave_alliance" and the "value = 1" is because of this...

If I do not have the value = 1, the entire Axis makes peace with the Allies (I had this problem where the war would stop when Italy surrenders). This actually does not kick them out of the Axis, as when I removed the leave_alliance event, Italy remained a part of the Axis, but they were not at war with the Allies or Russia. You can actually be a member of an alliance WITHOUT actually being in the same wars as them. I had this problem as Italy would join the allies, but not actually be at war with Germany. This was because they left the alliance with germany, and joined the alliance with england all in the same event, resulting in them technically being in the Allies and Axis for the same moment, resulting in italy not being at war with any Alliance.

The way that it is works out best in all of the tests that I have done. It may not be very neat, but it does work.

Generalisimo · Mar 12, 2003

Originally posted by McNaughton
The reason for both the "leave_alliance" and the "value = 1" is because of this...

If I do not have the value = 1, the entire Axis makes peace with the Allies (I had this problem where the war would stop when Italy surrenders). This actually does not kick them out of the Axis, as when I removed the leave_alliance event, Italy remained a part of the Axis, but they were not at war with the Allies or Russia. You can actually be a member of an alliance WITHOUT actually being in the same wars as them. I had this problem as Italy would join the allies, but not actually be at war with Germany. This was because they left the alliance with germany, and joined the alliance with england all in the same event, resulting in them technically being in the Allies and Axis for the same moment, resulting in italy not being at war with any Alliance.

The way that it is works out best in all of the tests that I have done. It may not be very neat, but it does work.

ok, now the events looks better.

McNaughton · Mar 12, 2003

RSI files and map

Here is what Northern Italy will look like after the RSI is formed (in the ItalyRSI.txt event)

Here are the files

http://members.rogers.com/eprichard1704/ItalySurrender.zip

You have to modify the TEXT.CSV file from

U01;User Defined;

To..

U01;Italian Socialist Republic;

You also have to add the following to the REVOLT.TXT file

Code:

U01 = {
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
	expirydate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }
	minimum = { 
		933 932 912 913 563 567 910 906 907
	}
	extra = { }
	capital = 932
	ai = "u01.ai"
}

Generalisimo · Mar 12, 2003

just a question, what happens if you give all northern italy to germany, except Bolzano?
will the germans advance through RSI territory to attack Italy?
of course, with RSI should give MA to GER.
i will test that and see what happens...

McNaughton · Mar 12, 2003

Originally posted by Generalisimo
just a question, what happens if you give all northern italy to germany, except Bolzano?
will the germans advance through RSI territory to attack Italy?
of course, with RSI should give MA to GER.
i will test that and see what happens...

I tried it with the RSI controlling all of Northern Italy, and the RSI took a very active part in fighting Italy (they sent whatever they had south). However, the Germans and their other Allies appeared to be slow in coming to the RSI's aid. I was able to march all the way to Venice as an Allied Italy before I saw German and Croation forces. Possibly having Northern Italy as core German defense territories will get them to send troops there ASAP.

There should be events/AI requirements firing that send German troops to Italy/North Africa even before the surrender. As far as I know, Germany rarely sends an Afrika Korps, or any forces to help Italy. Maybe we should focus on having Germany support Italy a bit more, so when/if Italy surrenders there will already be German forces in the area so they won't have to run from all over Europe.

I will try a few blind tests, starting in 1941, which will hopefully result in the Surrender Event firing (plus see how Germany reacts to it better then the limited tests that I have been doing).

McNaughton · Mar 12, 2003

Ok, I did a test of the game with the RSI limited to North Western Italy, and Germany controlling the rest, and the result was that in 5 days there were about 20 German Divisions relocated to the theatre. This is a good sign, but I want to try and get the Allies to send troops to Italy as well (so the Germans won't necessarily overrun all of Southern Italy and Sicily). This reaction by the Germans does not take place if the RSI is between them and the Allies.

C.O.R.E HOI - Italy

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Aerandir Eärfalas

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