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OHgamer

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Speeding up the slow Persian intervention....

Reading thru many of the recent comments it seems that the UK-USSR intervention in Persia is still taking a much longer period to get to Teheran to trigger the events that end the conflict than it did in real life. Part of the problem I think is that the UK only proceeds from India into Iran in HoI when in real life they began the invasion of Persia by landing at Abadan and then followed the Trans-Iranian Railway up to Teheran. Would making Abadan a very high priority for the British in the AI help speed the process of the conflict by hopefully making the AI launch an amphibious attack there in the early stages, since from there the route to Teheran would go via much higher infra provinces than the current route via Bandar Abbas that the current AI takes. Not really familiar with the AI parameters so will have to leave that to people who know more but this might be a solution.
 

Steel

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Re: Speeding up the slow Persian intervention....

Originally posted by OHgamer
Would making Abadan a very high priority for the British in the AI help speed the process of the conflict by hopefully making the AI launch an amphibious attack there in the early stages, since from there the route to Teheran would go via much higher infra provinces than the current route via Bandar Abbas that the current AI takes. Not really familiar with the AI parameters so will have to leave that to people who know more but this might be a solution.


I'll check it.
 

Halibutt

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Re: Speeding up the slow Persian intervention....

Originally posted by OHgamer
Reading thru many of the recent comments it seems that the UK-USSR intervention in Persia is still taking a much longer period to get to Teheran to trigger the events that end the conflict than it did in real life. (...)
In my last hands-off (Bhutan), the "Allied" intervention was just a war between the USSR and Iran. UK didn't even manage to get there on time before the war ended. Strangely enough, USSR were at war against the UK as well...

The outcome was: two months of fighting, both events (UK and USSR) fire, the brits give back the only province they grabbed, the soviets declare they give back theirs and... nothing happens, the war rages on...
Cheers

Edit/ Now I understand what happened: the Soviets reached the capital which fired the event chain and Iran became... british puppet. Which left them at war against the USSR anyway.
 
Last edited:

Steel

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Persian intervention

Has anybody checked UK AI intervention in Persia now? The AI was modded in v0.6. From what I've seen it's primarily the USSR which advances in this region.
 

Generalisimo

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Re: Persian intervention

Originally posted by Steel
Has anybody checked UK AI intervention in Persia now? The AI was modded in v0.6. From what I've seen it's primarily the USSR which advances in this region.
how can we solve that? the "buggy" peace command will lead to weird situations surelly there if Persia is allied with someone... maybe giving some "pacivity" for USSR??? :confused:
 

unmerged(12544)

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Persian intervention again

When you play GER and PER is at war with the allies and SOV, then you have to DOW them twice to start a war against them (twice dissent +2!). And it leads to strange results like a war PER against ENG FRA USA and another one PER ENG FRA USA against GER. It gets very weird.
 

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Re: Persian intervention

Originally posted by Steel
Has anybody checked UK AI intervention in Persia now? The AI was modded in v0.6. From what I've seen it's primarily the USSR which advances in this region.

In all my games so far, the Persian front stalls fairly quickly. the reasons why:

1. Poor Soviet performance against the Germans. If the Germans are advancing steadily on teh Eastern Front, the Soviets only put a half hearted effort into Perisia. This is worsened if Japan is at war with USSR. Low infra in a few of the Northern Persian provinces also slow down Soviets, keeping them from taking Tehran.

2. UK only invades from India. In most games, Britain has stripped India to fight in N.africa/Ethiopia, so only has a few divisions with which to invade. This keeps Uk from quickly moving to take coastal provinces and advance north to Tehran.

3. If war goes badly for USSR, they go into a garrison mode against Persia, stalling the conclusion of the campaign. Plus, Soviets like to attack into and from low infra provinces (infra 30 or less), mauling their units org. Same can apply to UK, as they like to take those infra 20 province before advancing to better targets.

4. No naval invasions of Persian coast by UK. With priorities set so high for N.Africa, the UK doesn't commit any real ammount of troops to Persia until that front is either stabilized or finished (Libya Falls).

I think we still need to tweak the Persian intervention. Either: a. Extened the event chain, similar to the German intervention in Norway; b. have a temporary AI switch to concentrate on Persia; or c. both. I'm no good with AI's so that will be up to some one else. But I can work on extending the event chain to try and get better results.
 

Generalisimo

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Re: Re: Persian intervention

Originally posted by JRaup

I think we still need to tweak the Persian intervention. Either: a. Extened the event chain, similar to the German intervention in Norway; b. have a temporary AI switch to concentrate on Persia; or c. both. I'm no good with AI's so that will be up to some one else. But I can work on extending the event chain to try and get better results.
well, the problem with that is that both countries are too big and have too many responsabilities to put a lot of effort into Persia... for example you cannot tell the USSR to take units from the german front, that will kill them... or to the UK to take units from North Africa and India if Japan is invading... that's a very complex situation... :(
 

JRaup

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Re: Re: Re: Persian intervention

Originally posted by Generalisimo
well, the problem with that is that both countries are too big and have too many responsabilities to put a lot of effort into Persia... for example you cannot tell the USSR to take units from the german front, that will kill them... or to the UK to take units from North Africa and India if Japan is invading... that's a very complex situation... :(

Then revising the event chain is probably the better way to go. I think that spacing out some of the events, and adding in 1-2 additional "preperation" events will suffice. Just another thing on the to do list....
 

OHgamer

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Persian intervention

Originally posted by JRaup
Then revising the event chain is probably the better way to go. I think that spacing out some of the events, and adding in 1-2 additional "preperation" events will suffice. Just another thing on the to do list....

Or if necessary switch it to an "automatic" switch of Persia into the Allied camp and not replicate the actual conflict. Kinda leaves the player of Persia helpless though. But then again a human player would have larger numbers of Soviet and UK troops on their borders since they are the human player vs the AI. Perhaps adding Teheran to the target lists for the ENG and SOV AI and making the Persian army incompetent against the Allies (kinda like the settings that make the French army in 39 and 40 hopeless against the Germans) would help. As you say though, something else for the "to do" list. Right now up to my eyeballs in Vichy, and I ain't talking about fizzy water:D
 

unmerged(20271)

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some ideas for Iraq

Hi everybody, I’ve not read everything that has been written, because of a very slow modem. I’ll propose different things for this great game, sorry in advance if already said/discussed. I don’t have the software and the knowledge to propose more than text.


IRAQ:
Iraq was independent but basically under strong British control. There was a defence treaty between the two countries, UK could base planes in Iraq, also move troops through the country but only in case of war. An important point was also the petrol agreement. Iraq was obliged to give 75% of it to UK by using the pipeline ending in Haifa (Palestine). The 25% left were given to France with another pipeline ending in Tripoli (Lebanon).

The changes that could be done about Iraq:
Iraq is not a British puppet anymore, but it still grants military access to UK at the beginning of the game.
The actual Trade on world market for Iraq should be cancelled.

The petrol produced by Iraq could be delivered by two events or by any other mean (convoys) whatever the easier.
IF: Iraq not an Axis member or puppet. Palestine, Jordania and Gibraltar not axis controlled. UK not puppet or conquered. This event could happen every 6 months. The delivery goes to British capital.
EVENT 1 : “Iraq delivers 75% of its petrol production to UK” – 12000 OIL

IF: Iraq, Syria and Lebanon not an Axis member or puppet. France not puppet (or Vichy) or conquered. This event could happen every 6 months. The delivery goes to French capital.
EVENT 2: “Iraq delivers 25% of its petrol production to France” – 4000 OIL

IF: France conquered or puppet or Vichy created, UK not puppet or conquered by axis, Iraq not axis member or puppet.
EVENT 3: “United Kingdom ordered Iraq to close the Tripoli pipeline”.
In event 1, 75% is changed by 100% and event 2 is cancelled. 16000 OIL is delivered to UK.


On the 1st April 1941 Rachid Ali (a pro German Iraqi) tried and succeeded in his coup. He decided to stop deliveries to UK and instead sent everything to Vichy. He also declared some kind of neutrality, waiting for German help and some gold for himself.

IF: Germany and UK at war, date 1st April 1941 or more, tested once every 30 days, Iraq not an axis member or puppet then :
EVENT 4: “Sir Kinahan Conwallis, the British ambassador in Iraq, has announced that Rachid Ali has taken the power in Baghdad. Discussions have started between the two men.”
Effects: Iraq’s alignement moved to fascism +50. Rachid Ali Head of State.

EVENT 5: “Sending planes and supplies to Iraq”
This event is immediately triggered by event 4 for Germany.
YES : Germany : Supplies –500. Iraq : Supplies +250 / One fighter is added to Iraq in Kirkuk with strength 50. This fighter should be a German MR model .
NO : No effect.

EVENT 6 : “Intervene immediately in Iraq”
This event is immediately triggered by event 4 for UK.
YES : UK DoWs Iraq without any dissent penalty.
NO : Let Cornwallis discuss for a few weeks until we are ready to attack.

IF: Event 4 happened, UK decided NO for event 6, Iraq not Axis member or puppet or at war with UK, test event 7 every 7 days. This event should also be triggered immediately if any Allies unit moves in Iraq.
EVENT 7: “Iraqi troops have taken control of the Iraq Petroleum Company and closed the Haifa pipeline. British engineers killed or interned. War has started.”
Effects: Iraq at war with UK. No dissent penalty.


IF : UK and Iraq at war after event 6 or 7, and 2 or more Iraqi territories under Allies control the event 8 is triggered. Test every 14 days.
EVENT 8: “Rachid Ali is defeated”
Effects: Iraq becomes British puppet.

The last event could also be triggered if UK and Iraq at war by normal means. This simulates the fact that this country wasn’t ready for a total war like some others. You just had to put a military pressure on the leaders to ensure a victory.

IF : UK and Iraq at war after event 6 or 7 and Transjordania under Allies control there could be the following special event to speed up the event 8.
EVENT 9: “The Arab Legion in Iraq”
YES : UK supplies –25 / At Turayf becomes UK controlled.
NO : No need to send the Arab Legion
The Arab Legion was historically a very effective unit that helped the British beating Rachid Ali troops. As it’s not very historical to build an under strengthen Cavalry Division, the control of At Turayf is helpful for the event 8.


I hope that all this will be helpful for the people that work on the next CORE version.
Bye. Speed.
 

JRaup

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Persian intervention

Originally posted by OHgamer
Or if necessary switch it to an "automatic" switch of Persia into the Allied camp and not replicate the actual conflict. Kinda leaves the player of Persia helpless though. But then again a human player would have larger numbers of Soviet and UK troops on their borders since they are the human player vs the AI. Perhaps adding Teheran to the target lists for the ENG and SOV AI and making the Persian army incompetent against the Allies (kinda like the settings that make the French army in 39 and 40 hopeless against the Germans) would help. As you say though, something else for the "to do" list. Right now up to my eyeballs in Vichy, and I ain't talking about fizzy water:D

The handicap setings may make a significant diffrence, and I hadn't even considered that. as I said, I suck with AIs. Combining that with Tehran as a target, and it *should* go better. Let's try that first, before mucking with anything else.

and what, no Sitz baths for you?

:wacko:
 

JRaup

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re: Ideas for Iraq

Most of these are already in, in one form or another. The fascist putsch is in there, along with options for both the UK and Iraq. As Iraq is a puppet of the UK, though not in the Allies, the Brits get Iraq's surplus resources automatically. Additional convoys from Basra can ship resources to anywhere in the CW. Check out the CORE Read_Me in the CORE directory after you install.
 
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Pre-war Palestine

I was doing some reading and noticed that Palestine has been a pain for whoever was running it for quite some time. In the 1936-1940 period there were various rebellions, inter-ethnic conflict, general strikes, and fruitless diplomacy to try and resolve things.

There's an event string in there that probably has the following general effects:

- Consumes UK supplies and diplomatic influence to represent deployment of peace-keeping troops and various roadmaps to peace.
- Some fractional point dissent modifiers for UK.
- some minor dissent modifiers for Egypt, Lebanon and Syria (since a lot of Palestinians went into exile there).
- Some strikes to eliminate the small benefit from the local IC.

The text needs to be delicate, but the bloodshed in absolute terms was far lower than any number of events that covered elsewhere in HOI. Much of it was anti-Imperial anyway.
The bottom line is that the UK would be more than eager to cut Palestine free after WW2 since as a colony it didn't come close to paying for itself. Per the earlier discussion, this wouldn't go all the way to independence. Also, I don't really see any prospect for a local war breaking out over anything that goes on there.
 

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Re: Pre-war Palestine

Originally posted by Engineer
I was doing some reading and noticed that Palestine has been a pain for whoever was running it for quite some time. In the 1936-1940 period there were various rebellions, inter-ethnic conflict, general strikes, and fruitless diplomacy to try and resolve things.

There's an event string in there that probably has the following general effects:

- Consumes UK supplies and diplomatic influence to represent deployment of peace-keeping troops and various roadmaps to peace.
- Some fractional point dissent modifiers for UK.
- some minor dissent modifiers for Egypt, Lebanon and Syria (since a lot of Palestinians went into exile there).
- Some strikes to eliminate the small benefit from the local IC.

The text needs to be delicate, but the bloodshed in absolute terms was far lower than any number of events that covered elsewhere in HOI. Much of it was anti-Imperial anyway.
The bottom line is that the UK would be more than eager to cut Palestine free after WW2 since as a colony it didn't come close to paying for itself. Per the earlier discussion, this wouldn't go all the way to independence. Also, I don't really see any prospect for a local war breaking out over anything that goes on there.

I know what you mean. Ive seen a lot of info on this also. I would love to see some events for this and if you need help just let me know. Ill be more then happy to send you what I have but I am also willing to do some wriiting myself. Whatever you need.

all of this should of course leed to the creation of israel post war.
Unless off course the arab nations assisting the palestines go to war over it first.

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Ok, let me do some supplemental research over the weekend and I'll have an outline next week with a sketch of events, effects, and possible dependencies. Probably the biggest decision is scope. Pre-war this falls into a colonial rebellion scenario with the extra issue of intra-ethnic conflict in Palestine. Once the war takes place and we have the ugly verboten stuff then there was an internationalization of the conflict with the USA taking a more prominent and more pro-Zionist role. I have to admit that I'm much more comfortable just keeping to the pre-war events.

Besides the "elephant in the room" that is off-limits for Palestine, there are hundreds of post-war historical incidents that would suggest events, but those were so dependent on the outcome of the war, that I think we have to set a very high threshold for considering whether or not to script them in the context of a game that stops at the end of 1947. If we had a seamless Cold War CORE to follow on, it would be a different matter, but we need to finish WW2 first.
 

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Middle-East questions?

Hi,

what is exactly the point in the event about puting pressure on Persia? What do Soviet Union and UK gain from a war with Persia?
Is there some lend lease improvement for Soviet Union?

Why does Afghanistan join the Axis almost every time? Even when I play UK and put a maximum diplomatic pressure by having Afghanistan almost to the maximum democracy it still goes with Axis.

Thanxx for the answers.

Bye. Speed.
 

JRaup

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Re: Middle-East questions?

Originally posted by speed
Hi,

what is exactly the point in the event about puting pressure on Persia? What do Soviet Union and UK gain from a war with Persia?
Is there some lend lease improvement for Soviet Union?

Why does Afghanistan join the Axis almost every time? Even when I play UK and put a maximum diplomatic pressure by having Afghanistan almost to the maximum democracy it still goes with Axis.

Thanxx for the answers.

Bye. Speed.

It is mostly for historical completeness. Iran was intended to be a major supply route for the USSR to get L-L, a route that woould not be dependant on weather (Murmansk Convoys), or have to run a Japanese gauntlet (Vladivostok). IIRC, there are lend lease events which open up the "southern route" once Persia has fallen to the allies, but they may have been temporarily removed.

As for Afghanistan, it's an issue with the diplomatic model that HoI uses. The Afghan government starts as PA, which is in the Axis sphere of governmental alignemnt (ie right-wing). It is far easier for governments in the same bloc (in this case PA. FA, NS) to influence and get results. Some nations it appears though are hard coded to resist Axis overtures (NatChi for example). It's teh same reason why Argentina and Bolivia often end up in the Axis.
 

JRaup

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Re: Pre-war Palestine

Originally posted by Engineer
I was doing some reading and noticed that Palestine has been a pain for whoever was running it for quite some time. In the 1936-1940 period there were various rebellions, inter-ethnic conflict, general strikes, and fruitless diplomacy to try and resolve things.

There's an event string in there that probably has the following general effects:

- Consumes UK supplies and diplomatic influence to represent deployment of peace-keeping troops and various roadmaps to peace.
- Some fractional point dissent modifiers for UK.
- some minor dissent modifiers for Egypt, Lebanon and Syria (since a lot of Palestinians went into exile there).
- Some strikes to eliminate the small benefit from the local IC.

The text needs to be delicate, but the bloodshed in absolute terms was far lower than any number of events that covered elsewhere in HOI. Much of it was anti-Imperial anyway.
The bottom line is that the UK would be more than eager to cut Palestine free after WW2 since as a colony it didn't come close to paying for itself. Per the earlier discussion, this wouldn't go all the way to independence. Also, I don't really see any prospect for a local war breaking out over anything that goes on there.

Some ideas:

1. 23 May, 1939: British parliament agrees to plan for independence of Palestine by 1949. Denounced by Jews and Arabs.

2. During the 30's Orde Wingate led a group of Jewish vigilantes in reprisals against Arab settlements.

3. Stern Gang and Irgun, once war begins, stop attacks in Palestine.

4. Creation of Hagganah, ehich is around 1943 IIRC.