C.O.R.E HOI - Germany

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by stybb
i say it again.. the book of guderian wasnt a totaly developt blitzkrieg warfare plan. But the "Guderian Achtung Panzer doctrine" may work so u after u got it can reserch the blitzkrieg doctrine.. this will make the german reserch slower.. thats good!

of course only german should have this doctrine..

BUT i think it should take much much much longer time for other countries to reserch the blitzkrieg doctrine couse the germans were leading in this area.. so make it 360 days for that doctrine..for other countries..

I think the doctrine name should Be

Achtung! Panzer! like his book

Since HoI 1.05 totally overhauls whole starting doctrines for Germany we probably have to change all the concept of their development in CORE... They get new doctrines by events - so maybe your idea actually IS in vanilla 1.05?

 

[Ghost_dk]

german tanquette

I have to once again point our that the german either need to gain the tanquette prototype tech or loose the tanquette 50 mg tech

this is mainly because of ai stupidity. once germany has researched basic engine, suspension and gears then tanquette prototype tanquette becomes available and the the ai will research it even is it gains nothing from it.

Ghost_dk

I also have to say that i am not pleased that germany gets only pre-war exp doc. from the spanish civil war now instead of early war combat testing like we talked about. this way if the war lasts more then 4 months then the germens get zero because they will already have researched it or be so far behind that it doesnt matter anyway.

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: german tanquette

Originally posted by Ghost_dk
I have to once again point our that the german either need to gain the tanquette prototype tech or loose the tanquette 50 mg tech

this is mainly because of ai stupidity. once germany has researched basic engine, suspension and gears then tanquette prototype tanquette becomes available and the the ai will research it even is it gains nothing from it.

this was already solved, wait for the next version.

Originally posted by Ghost_dk
I also have to say that i am not pleased that germany gets only pre-war exp doc. from the spanish civil war now instead of early war combat testing like we talked about. this way if the war lasts more then 4 months then the germens get zero because they will already have researched it or be so far behind that it doesnt matter anyway.

will check that...

 

[unmerged(17802)]

delete this msg

 

[unmerged(11002)]

Could we have in event for Germany, if it secedes conquering European Russia, to autobahns (infrastructure increase.)

These were plans for three important ones; Warsaw to Kazan via Minsk and Moscow, Warsaw to Leningrad via Riga, Krakow to Stalingrad via Kiev and Khar’kov.

Their was also plans to carry of most of the USSR's industry to Germany itself, the plan being that that area was to be nothing but farmland for Germany settlers, but I don't know if that was ever seriously considered.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Re: german tanquette

Originally posted by Ghost_dk
I also have to say that i am not pleased that germany gets only pre-war exp doc. from the spanish civil war now instead of early war combat testing like we talked about. this way if the war lasts more then 4 months then the germens get zero because they will already have researched it or be so far behind that it doesnt matter anyway.

In 1.05 (and CORE 0.5) it is changed even more. They get some basic doctrines at the start of war, in Important Experience event they get pair of levels (Land and Air), and later in Munich they get the rest of doctriens they had in vanilla HoI 1.04 from the start.
AGAIN - Germans can't get early war combat testing in Spain, because it will give them improved tanks in 1939-1940. And if we change the prerequisite for improved tanks for a higher doctrine, rest of the world will have to wait for improved tanks even more. So - no T-34 before Barbarossa, Sherman in 1944, not 1942... It's a balance change, and VERY important one.

 

[Ghost_dk]

Originally posted by Copper Nicus
In 1.05 (and CORE 0.5) it is changed even more. They get some basic doctrines at the start of war, in Important Experience event they get pair of levels (Land and Air), and later in Munich they get the rest of doctriens they had in vanilla HoI 1.04 from the start.
AGAIN - Germans can't get early war combat testing in Spain, because it will give them improved tanks in 1939-1940. And if we change the prerequisite for improved tanks for a higher doctrine, rest of the world will have to wait for improved tanks even more. So - no T-34 before Barbarossa, Sherman in 1944, not 1942... It's a balance change, and VERY important one.

well if they would get the pre- war level at the outbreak of the spanish civil war then i wouldnt mind. What i strongly oppose is giving tech's, doctrines or levels in events that either are either obsolete or almost certainly close to completion when the event fires. Then alternative's should be found. the AI doesnt know that it is going to get pre- war some time in 1937 so off course it researces it before that and so does any halfway desent player.
If you dont want to give higher levels then give something else or delete the event because it becomes useless.

Ghost_dk

 

[Steel]

Originally posted by Ghost_dk
Then alternative's should be found. the AI doesnt know that it is going to get pre- war some time in 1937 so off course it researces it before that and so does any halfway desent player.
If you dont want to give higher levels then give something else or delete the event because it becomes useless.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree here All it takes is a separate AI file which does not research doctrines until after Munich and of course players need to be aware that some events will grant tech. This solution (extra AI file) is already in 1.05, we can roll that into v0.5 of C.O.R.E. quite easily. We need to rethink the German AI anyway.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by Ghost_dk
(...)the AI doesnt know that it is going to get pre- war some time in 1937 so off course it researces it before that and so does any halfway desent player.

It's true only in case of player, since 1.05 German36_38 AI does not research land doctrines at all. But again, player got ability that HoI AI's lack - he learns. It's standard player practice to wait until they get free tech, no matter what. After the first game he simply knows, that he will get some doctrines after Spanish Civil War, so he actively (tech support, expeditionary forces) supports SPA to get techs on time.

Still don't get what's the problem - even Paradox (not the most elastic in his changes ) decided that Germany got too much doctrines at the start. In 0.5, compared to HoI 1.05, Germany in 1938 will have only one level land techs less, same number of air doctrines and 100% chance that they get their land doctrines for free at the time (so they can plan their research in advance).
So far Germany got serious advantage to the other nations, and I never wanted to destroy it, but both hand off games and players experience shows, that Germany are still ahistorically winning the war. So what's the big deal?

 

[Ghost_dk]

Originally posted by Copper Nicus

Still don't get what's the problem - even Paradox (not the most elastic in his changes ) decided that Germany got too much doctrines at the start. In 0.5, compared to HoI 1.05, Germany in 1938 will have only one level land techs less, same number of air doctrines and 100% chance that they get their land doctrines for free at the time (so they can plan their research in advance).
So far Germany got serious advantage to the other nations, and I never wanted to destroy it, but both hand off games and players experience shows, that Germany are still ahistorically winning the war. So what's the big deal?

well good thing about ai not wasting research points anymore,

my problem may seem old to you by now but here is a proposal

the three doctrines in late war level that define blitzkrieg, should IMO be spread out across the other levels. first one in prewar, next in early combat testing and the last one remain in late war as it is now. this will allow for the gradual development of the blitzkrieg concept througout the war and with the new german ai it will start research on the first real blitzkrieg doc in 39 when it swithches ai and finish it just before outbreak of war. Perfeck IMO and what i have been asking for all along.

Ghost_dk

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Thing to do in 0.6... Ok, I'll think about it and post the solution in the proper thread, ok? I have to balace it with other nations and since 0.5 is only maintenance release, 0.6 will be the release with new, serious technology changes.

 

[Ghost_dk]

Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Thing to do in 0.6... Ok, I'll think about it and post the solution in the proper thread, ok? I have to balace it with other nations and since 0.5 is only maintenance release, 0.6 will be the release with new, serious technology changes.

sounds good

 

[Nomble]

I think Germany should get an event that they change their sea strategy and start building more submarines. Right now when I'm italy I see germany do nothing but keep building transports for no reason, they gain nothing in the atlantic-war

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by Nomble
I think Germany should get an event that they change their sea strategy and start building more submarines. Right now when I'm italy I see germany do nothing but keep building transports for no reason, they gain nothing in the atlantic-war

It can be done by simple adjustment of German AI priorities. When they prepare for attack on UK (or they won with USSR) they use germany_seelion.ai. No problem with rising production of subs and lowering a bit land priorities (transports are needed for invasions - AI needs A LOT of them).

Ok, I will check this file.

 

[unmerged(12388)]

Re: Wilhelm Gustloff & Steuben

Originally posted by Steel
FYI I've gone ahead and coded the sinking of Wilhelm Gustloff & General von Steuben. Slow day at work

Just an afterthought.. Would it be possible to check if the soviets have any operational subs in baltic area at the time for that event to happen?

Also, do you have an event for Hitler's visit in Finland for Marshal Mannerheim's 75th birthday on June 4th 1942? That could have some slight effect on relations and such.. And there you'd have a finnish event too

 

[Steel]

Re: Re: Wilhelm Gustloff & Steuben

Originally posted by General FUp
Just an afterthought.. Would it be possible to check if the soviets have any operational subs in baltic area at the time for that event to happen?

Maybe I know the garrison trigger works for army and does not work for air force. I don't know if it works for navy.

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: Re: Wilhelm Gustloff & Steuben

Originally posted by General FUp
Also, do you have an event for Hitler's visit in Finland for Marshal Mannerheim's 75th birthday on June 4th 1942? That could have some slight effect on relations and such.. And there you'd have a finnish event too

and which will be the effects??

 

[HlvtnCndn]

I was doing some experimenting with events that lower German diplomatic influence, in order to slow down the rush of countries joining the Axis to a more historical level, and discovered something interesting. If you add an { influence value = -30 } command to Action A of Germany's "Danzig or War" event (2027), it knocks German diplomacy far enough into negative values that it doesn't get back above 0 until early 1940 - which not only keeps Hungary and Italy from jumping on board right away, but also leaves a historical phony war-esque intermission before the land war in the west starts (presumably because Germany can't annex Poland until it has some diplomats.)

Does this seems a little too harsh? It only really affects AI Germany - a human German player can always get around it by not demanding Danzig and then declaring war manually.

Edit: forgot to mention one problem it creates - the trigger for the Soviets getting eastern Poland would have to be changed, since it won't fire until the Germans have "officially" annexed Poland.

 

[Steel]

Paris Falls! events

What's the general feeling about the bolted.txt events? I think they date back to 1.02 when Germany had some issues getting Italy into the Axis, now the problem is the other way around. Any comments on removing these events? Has anybody tested it?

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: Paris Falls! events

Originally posted by Steel
What's the general feeling about the bolted.txt events? I think they date back to 1.02 when Germany had some issues getting Italy into the Axis, now the problem is the other way around. Any comments on removing these events? Has anybody tested it?

maybe it should add more "fascists points" to Italy instead of putting them into the axis.