C.O.R.E HOI - Germany

[unmerged(15561)]

6 times as many dead as the titanic!!!

My only question is that the Titanic was a great symbol of the British Empire and naval (Civil) fleet. As such it caused quite a bit of distress when the "unsinkable went down"! Was either ship a monumental craft in the german fleet?

Now the Gustloff sounds like it had around, 9000 die. Thats about the size of a small town! Id reckon that would cause some distress and maybe a small amoiunt of volunteers!

Not sure about her sister ship though!

 

[Steel]

The Wilhelm Gustloff (25484 BRT) was launched in 1937 as the crown jewel of the Kraft durch Freude or Strength through Joy organization (KdF).

Does that qualify? You can read up on KdF elsewhere, I don't want to post it here as I'm uncertain if it would violate forum rules.

 

[unmerged(15561)]

Yup! Ive read acouple of site now. Its a "disaster", so IMO Id include it. 966 survivors otta 8000....

What did surprise me though was that 3 babies were born of pregnant women, who were rescued from the sinking ship!!

Not all bad.

 

[SykoNurse]

Originally posted by 2Coats

Was either ship a monumental craft in the german fleet?

Now the Gustloff sounds like it had around, 9000 die. Thats about the size of a small town! Id reckon that would cause some distress and maybe a small amoiunt of volunteers!
Not sure about her sister ship though!

I´m sure that Germany had other problems by the time these ships were sunk. Volunteers? Every man that could hold some kind of weapon already did. Everybody else was busy with not dying. dissent? not likely to be unhappier than at that time already I think. Still HoI doesnt know that, so dissent might be in order. The worth it had for the news was for the ever unstoppable propaganda I guess....

 

[Steel]

IIRC there was a news blackout about it so the effect was mainly that remaining refugees in Gotenhafen refused to leave by ship. At the time the propaganda ministry was focusing on how the Luftwaffe was using Ju-88's for airdropping supplies (tins of condensed milk etc) to columns of refugees making their way west through the snow and of course on the undefeatable Volksturm that was being raised to stop the red tide.

Maybe 1 point of dissent and 1-2 points of manpower loss (to represent the ship and submarine crews on Gustloff).

 

[SykoNurse]

Originally posted by Steel

Maybe 1 point of dissent and 1-2 points of manpower loss (to represent the ship and submarine crews on Gustloff).

sounds good

 

[unmerged(15561)]

Originally posted by Steel

Maybe 1 point of dissent and 1-2 points of manpower loss (to represent the ship and submarine crews on Gustloff).

Ok fair enuff on the loss of dissent, but if the subs and ships can be deleted maybe you should delete those?

Something like, x,y and z recalled to assist in evac of ..... as a result of disaster these are outta the game?

 

[Steel]

Well, historically there was some Kriegsmarine ships that got involved in rescue operations but in game terms we can't know where these ships are, if they have been sunk already etc. Generally speaking interaction with specific units through events is nearly impossible.


SykoNurse, do you want to code these events or should I do it? Haven't written a German event since the Neuschwabenland but I don't mind....

 

[Steel]

Found some sources on the Nationalkomitee Freies Deutschland, or National Committee for a Free Germany - NKFD. It was formed in July 1943 at the Krasnogorsk POW camp outside of Moscow.

Also found info on the BDO (Bund-Deutscher-Offiziere), formed 12th of September 1943 by General Walther von Seydlitz, German Communists and the Red Army Political branch. It included
Generalmajor Lattmann and Generalmajor Dr. Korfes. Von Paulus joined later.

One source states:

Perhaps the best known example of the work of the BDO and the NKFD was during the Korsun-Tcherkassy pocket on the lower Dnieper west of Kiev in early 1944. It was there that five German divisions, remnants of the 5.SS Division Wiking, and the Belgian Volunteer Brigade Wallonie were trapped. Seydlitz, Korfes, and other high-ranking German POW officers of the BDO were transported to the salient by a special Soviet train equipped with loudspeakers.

The outcome of this propaganda mission was complete failure so it's really nothing but a footnote in history. Probably no game relevance, although arguably if Germany is running with high dissent then perhaps we could have some flavour events about BDO and NKFD gaining influence.

 

[unmerged(15561)]

Originally posted by Steel
..........Generally speaking interaction with specific units through events is nearly impossible.

Yeah I noticed. What a bumber!!!!

Im pretty sure its not possible but is there a command to removed org/str from a specific unit?

 

[Steel]

No.

And what's worse, all unit interaction is based on ID (no option for location) so you can't for example inflict 10 points damage on 20 random units in Pearl Harbour at the Japanese DOW. If you think things should be added then add your suggestions to the 1.05 Wishlist thread in the Suggestions forum.

 

[Steel]

There was some discussion in the bug forum and Brock Landers suggested the Rhineland event should be changed to trigger when Germany actually places units in the Rhineland. Makes sense, eh

Here's my initial draft of how the events could be done:


- Rhineland history: Triggers at the start of the game. Event provides some general background on the situation. No effects, this is just to make sure human players know what they need to do

- Rhineland gambit: Start date 1/1/1936, end date 30/12/1936. End date could be a lot later but has to be prior to Anschluss. Triggers if German garrison in Rhineland is 1 division or more. Links in with existing event chains for Allied reaction etc. Perhaps the German demands on Austria etc should be granted with this event since this is really the beginning of Germany flexing it's muscles on the internation scene. Doing it that way would eliminate the irritating 2nd of January pop-up "German demands on Austria rejected" which the German AI always seems to try and also any abuses about Germany getting Austria in 1936 through repeat demands. The German AI would get some garrison settings to make sure it triggers this event

- Demilitarised Rhineland: Triggers 1/1/1937 if the Rhineland Gambit has not fired. Some Allied WE reduction but Germany gets some dissent and loss of DI. Generally speaking this event shouldn't happen but it provides an alternate path for those who don't want war early on.

Basically this gives the player a choice between remilitarisation at a time of their choice in 1936 but with all it's associated risks or to stay out of the area for better reactions but loss of face and internal stability. Making the ahistorical choice should probably kill the Anschluss, Sudetenland and Danzig and allow for a Germany that aligns itself with the West against Comintern.

 

[Generalisimo]

take a look at Babe's events...
then suggest what you want to modify of them.

 

[unmerged(10750)]

A minor annoyance - Kesselring is presented as both a land and air leader.

A modest proposal - sleep "Land General Kesselring" at game start, and present an event later on in the game (maybe triggering upon Allied invasion of Europe?) that would allow the Germans to sleep "Air General Kesselring" and bring on "Land General Kesslering"?

 

[Steel]

Originally posted by czolgosz
A minor annoyance - Kesselring is presented as both a land and air leader.

A modest proposal - sleep "Land General Kesselring" at game start, and present an event later on in the game (maybe triggering upon Allied invasion of Europe?) that would allow the Germans to sleep "Air General Kesselring" and bring on "Land General Kesslering"?

Doesn't work Slept leaders don't come back.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by Generalisimo
take a look at Babe's events...
then suggest what you want to modify of them.

Some time ago I suggested that France should carry this war (in ahistorical choice) alone (leave_alliance + allignment change to ensure that they would not go back to Allies 3 days later), but it was not added...

 

[unmerged(10750)]

Originally posted by Steel
Doesn't work Slept leaders don't come back.

Damn. That puts quite a crimp in my modding plans.

 

[gzav]

as suggested by steel, ill repost here: im reading William Shirer's "rise and fall of the third reich" and i thought all the built up tension before munich were really interesting. england, france, russia and of course czechoslovakia were really worried about war as early as may 38, and yugoslavia and bulgaria had warned hungary that they would dow them if they joined a war against czechoslovakia.
i wonder if its possible to add events giving a greater control over the czech issue, like events asking england if they want to abandon czechoslovakia, or dow england with the assistance of france and russia. or other such things to give more alternatives and more control over munich
g

 

[unmerged(10750)]

Originally posted by gzav

i wonder if its possible to add events giving a greater control over the czech issue, like events asking england if they want to abandon czechoslovakia, or dow england with the assistance of france and russia. or other such things to give more alternatives and more control over munich
g

I assume you mean DoW Germany, right?

Anyhoo, if England decided to back Czechoslovakia at Munich, it would have been without Soviet support.

As far as Stalin was concerned, the Western Allies were trying to force Germany into war with the USSR. The Soviets were not interested in the least in forming an alliance with France and Britain - he believed (correctly, as it turned out) that the Soviets would be doing the bulk of the fighting in order to preserve mainly British and French interests.

Shirer, as a good American writing during the early days of the Cold War, tended to paint Stalin as devious, but he really was looking out for his nation's best interest. As far as he was concerned, Germany was the Allies' problem.

A series of Munich events should result in worsening relations between the Allies and the USSR, almost regardless of the outcome (if Chamberlain pushes for peace, Stalin think he's trying to foist Hitler off on him. If he stands strong, it seems he's trying to plunge the continent into war.)

The relations between the Allies and the Soviets were, of course, complicated. There really needs to be a lot more events to simulate that (A Katyn Forest event would be nice, for instance).

 

[gzav]

maybe youre right, but id still love events giving control, not just get a notification of the sudeten event or the anschluss, or events afterwards to check the reaction of the allies.
g