C.O.R.E HOI - Far East (Japan-Nationalist China-ChiCom-Siam-Phillipines)

[Steel]

New events

EDIT: Removed download link. Please use C.O.R.E. distribution.

The new distro contains a series of first draft events covering German trade with China, the Japanese reaction, the negotiations regarding German recognition of Manchukuo as a state and German trade with Japan. There's also an updated antarctic.txt with the correct ship name, new .inc files for Japan and Manchuria for all scenarios and a slightly better installer. It's tested on a clean install and it should work without errors, but any problems let me know. I've included translators notes regarding the changes. The zip file is better organised now as well so it maintains directory structure. Please read the readme.txt.

I'd appreciate feedback on this, especially the new natchi.txt events.

The current status of the AI is that Japan now seems to defeat ComChi and NatChi sometime between 1938 and 1942, with a leaning towards 1941-1942. Very occassionally Japan suffers bad losses due to the retreat bug, leading to a Japanese defeat on the mainland. With China annexed (or Kiri peace), Japan then goes on to fight the Philipines, the USA and the Allies. Typically Japan defeats the UK and conquers India, Singapore etc but doesn't succeed in the Pacific as the US fleet is too strong. At best Japan reaches as far as Port Moresby and New Caledonia, but usually they are then pushed back and even lose the Philipines.

 

[unmerged(13158)]

Looking good Steel. I'm curious, will this ever be added in-game - like v1.04? I know CORE apparentally models something done with EU where every theatre is modded..but it's not apparent whether Paradox will ever implement these mods, or if they will be alternates to the normal 1936 campaign.

Anyways, good work. Too bad, you're probably going to have to readjust - again - when v1.04 comes out. Japan will probably be entirely too overpowering. I hope they do implement them because they will blow away what they have currently.

 

[unmerged(2826)]

It's OK they join the Axis and fight the Allies; what's not OK is that they fight the Soviets or join the Axis AFTER the capture of Moscow...
Therefore I suggest:

-after Nomohan Incident there would be certain trigger to allow Non-Agression Pact
-When M-R Pact happens Japan should leave the Axis adn it should be another trigger for Non-Agression Pact
-then when Germany= atwar with SOV another trigger will be made; this will trigger the signing of the Non-Agression Pact, with options for all parties
-then there should be a Pearl Harbor event somewhere from Sept. 1941 until Jul. 1942 (random offset); in this event Japan would have the choice between accepting the plan (war with USA and the Allies; some US ships destroyed, some other effects) or don't let it happen.
-This would trigger an event for Germany allowing or disallowing Japan to the Axis; if they would join in USA would join the Allies and Japan the Axis, maybe some other effects as well
-however JAP will then probablly be at war with SOV this way but because those would be in a different alliance (the Commintern) than the allies and the non-agression pact would be signed it would have two options again: Honor the Pact (historical) wich would make it at peace with the Commintern but not with the allies, or it could also choose to fight on and this would have some negative effects, a same event would be made for the SOV, trigger of both would thus be IF JAP=atwar with SOV.
-When Germany is defeated the USSR would declare war on Japan within a few months and would not suffer any negative effects because of it.

For the non-agression events there should ofcourse be a percentage of chance that they don't happen (and thus the war continues)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this could create a fairly historical situation wich is currently lacking (Japan fighting USSR/Japan ONLY joining the Axis after the capture of Moscow...)

 

[Steel]

Originally posted by emperor dennis
-When M-R Pact happens Japan should leave the Axis adn it should be another trigger for Non-Agression Pact

Well, the Tri-Partite Pact wasn't signed until 27th September 1940 so Japan wouldn't be a member of the Axis in 1939 when the M-R Pact happens. In game, Germany, Slovakia and Hungary are normally the only Axis members at that time.

Regarding the other events, I hear what you are saying but I don't think it would fit in with the game as it stands right now with a DOW on Philipines that seems pretty much hard-coded. More often than not, AI Japan would DOW the Philipines and the USA before the Pearl Harbour event occurred. Also a human-played USA would probably not appreciate having a dozen random ships sunk (quite possibly in European waters...). How would you select the ships to destroy?

Paradox have said the Far East is a priority for 1.04, I'd love to know what they are working on but I don't... maybe some of this will be resolved with the next patch. I'll wait and see, it there's no change in 1.04 we'll look at this again.

Originally posted by Industrious
Looking good Steel. I'm curious, will this ever be added in-game - like v1.04? I know CORE apparentally models something done with EU where every theatre is modded..but it's not apparent whether Paradox will ever implement these mods.

Thanks for the feedback. About inclusion in a patch, who knows? At this time I'm not aware of any plans of making C.O.R.E. part of the regular Paradox distro, but it's very early days of course. To be honest if I was Paradox I wouldn't want the hassle of translation and support for this right now There's some benefits to having a big community-led effort which isn't bound to patch schedules as well.

 

[unmerged(2826)]

Well, I see what you mean now and I think waiting for 1.04 would thus be the best solution. The only thing I want is to make C.O.R.E. as realistic as possible but if Paradox gets it fixed in 1.04 that would ofcourse be the best solution...

 

[Steel]

I identied an additional two problems with the files uploaded today, they've now been corrected and the latest version is on the website.

Fixed:
- Minor: Manpower deduction in some events was too high
- Major: Missing desc causing display problem with one event

 

[unmerged(14603)]

natchi.txt

I played NatChi 1936 no mods with your new events. Everything seems to trigger as expected. I got 2 German military mission events (2-Apr-36 & 27-Apr-37). The Germans decided to forgo the third on on 10-Feb-38. Nomohan caused a USSR-Japan war that was a disaster for the Japanese. Everything looked good. Just 2 comments:

1. The first German mission - second option was unreadable. I think the message may be too long.

2. I'm not sure what the extra divisions in the build queue are worth (unless they are to prompt the natchi ai to build more infantry) because they are no better "trained" than the other infantry in the queue. Maybe a nice Land Doctrine tech could represent "training".

Nice work.

 

[Steel]

The best I've seen Japan manage when Nomonhan goes wrong is a stand-off holding on to about 15 Chinese provinces (Korea was lost) with 90 Japanese divisions facing down over 100 Soviet and 100 Chinese divisions. The game crashed after a few months though so I never found out how it would have ended, this was just after Germany DOW'ed the Soviets and there was only 25 Soviet divisions on the German border.

I also saw the problem with too long text in the event choices and reduced it earlier today. Should be ok in the latest version on the web, if not let me know. I only test at 1280x1024 unless I remember to check on my laptop as well...

The extra divisions are placeholders for now, I really want to do something different but haven't quite decided what Ideas are welcome!

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[donkeysaint]

Soviet-Nippon non-aggression pact

Hi again!

I've been following your discussion about non-aggression pacts and Japanese war entry. I agree that a "Pearl Harbor" event would be wrong, especially since the war seems to start anyway.

I do however believe that the non-aggression pact should be in if a historical Khalkin Ghol happens. I haven't looked at your latest pack, so I might be wrong, but from what I could see before there wasn't anything like it.

I have seen this "peace command", that Emp. Dennis was talking about (I think it was him), work before in a Sisyphus event.
Here's the thread and the event in question was written like this:


#######################
# Japan and Russia abstains from going to war
##################################################
#######################
event = {
id = 5141
random = no
country = JAP

# Triggered by SOV 5140

name = "Japan and Russia abstains from going to war"
desc = "When Germany declared war on Russia, Japan
had a choice whether to join the war or not. According to the
terms of the Tripartite Pact, they were not obliged to declare war
on Russia, but if they were to join the war, it could greatly benefit
the Axis war effort. To a lesser extent, the opposite was true for
the allies - if Russia could divert Japans drive in South-East Asia,
the allied forces would relieved."

style = 0

action_a = {
name = "It is better to focus on our interests in South-East Asia"
command = { type = peace which = SOV }
}
action_b = {
name = "We will exploit this opportunity"
command = { }
}
}

If I remeber correctly I had to change something before I got it to work, but I'm not sure. Anyway, have a look at it. And if this is old information to you I appologise...

 

[Steel]

All input is welcome I think all this comes down to determinism - some players think it's wrong that Japan doesn't join the Axis and doesn't attack Germany, other players think it's wrong if the historical events don't take place.

Personally I think Japan participating in the war against the Comintern makes great alternate history and was a real possibility given different event outcomes. The way it's coded in the events makes it a relatively small chance though and if the treaty was included - with no caveats - it might make it a 1/400 type chance...

You are right though - what is really needed is a good linkage between the Nomonhan Incident, the Anti-Comintern Pact and Japan's choice of going north or south. For example in the rare case where USSR backs down over Nomonhan incident then Japan should be far more keen on attacking them in 1941. I'll also need to model the Japanese internal politics better to show if the Army or the Navy has primacy in government decisions.

The mind boggles

 

[Steel]

New version of the files has been uploaded, fixing one broken event (happened to wrong country) and adding some triggers for another event.

 

[Steel]

I've written and tested some events covering the non-aggression treaty. It works ie Japan is still part of Axis but not at war with USSR in the simple scenario of German DOW vs USSR while Japan is part of Axis.

I'm concerned however since I can't trigger based on which country issued the DOW, so the event will fire when the AI or player (Japan or USSR) intentionally DOW's the other country as well as when Germany starts an Axis vs Comintern war.

There's also a question of firing an event for Japan or for USSR or for both - it seems ridiculous to fire an event for USSR to say "Do you want to abide by the treaty" if Japan just did a DOW on them intentionally.

IMHO this event chain would work fine in 90% of cases and be absolutely rotten in 10%...

 

[unmerged(2826)]

I think for both; Japan should go first and only if it would accept USSr would have a choice. You could also add an offset chance (maybe 80%) this would make sure both would need to secure the Manchurian/Siberian border.
Also I think Pearl Harbor should be in somehow, triggers could be Japan's governement form, US war entry and if the US did the oil embargo (historical cause). If Japan would not do Pearl Harbor it should lose oil every year and dissent would go up; US war entry should go down and maybe Oil embargos should end, if it does it would join the Axis (Germany has an option not to accept this) and US would lose supplies and some ships and it would join the Allies. However when Germany would not accept Japan into the Axis US would have a Pacific-first AI. Does this sound reasonable? I really think Pearl Harbor should be in as it was a very significant diplomatic action by the Japanese.

 

[Steel]

Show me a Pearl Harbor event that works (ref. the destruction of a fleet in Pearl Harbor) and I'll include it.

 

[Generalisimo]

Originally posted by Steel
Show me a Pearl Harbor event that works (ref. the destruction of a fleet in Pearl Harbor) and I'll include it.

i agree with you, there is no way to include that with this engine. sorry dennis

 

[unmerged(2826)]

Maybe the destruction of the fleet could not be modelled by the loss of ships; however it could bes imulated by oil/supply/ic and maybe infrastructure losses and maybe a tech or doctrine for the Japanese. The main reason why I think Pearl Harbor should be in is because of it's political consequences, not the military ones, however if you make the US lose a significant amount of supplies and oil and an infrastructure loss in Pearl Harbor it could simulate the damage done. If you know other or better ways please say so.

 

[Steel]

I don't know a better way and I don't think the oil/IC/supplies loss would slow the US down. A battleship takes almost 2 years to build, there's nothing else that compares. Wiping out 99.999 oil for the US is restored in 130 days (and doesn't seem fair), removing 3 IC (all Honolulu industry) makes no difference at all... Removing supply really only impact abiliity to reinforce air and land units (sea units self-repair) and doesn't slow down US efforts in Pacific since they'll be producing at least the daily need anyway.

U.S. losses at Pearl Harbour included 18 or 19 war ships (serious damage or sunk) including 5 battleships sunk as well as 350 warplanes, 2,403 KIA and 1,178 WIA. Quick comparison with 1936 starting units this is one third of battleships of the US navy. Any Pearl Harbour event that doesn't reflect this is IMHO not worth calling "Pearl Harbour".

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to do one and I appreciate all your input. There's just no way for me to do it Quite frustrating.

 

[brandnew70x7]

How about an event where if Netherlands exist, and end the war as victors, Indonesia requests indepdendence, and if not granted a war starts in between the two countries?

 

[Steel]

Ok.

 

[unmerged(2826)]

Is there a way the Id's of ships can be checked or something like that? If that would be possible you could make them sink some battleships wich are in the pacific in 1936... Wouldn't be the ideal solution but it should somehow be implented, maybe an org loss (if it is possible)???