C.O.R.E HOI - Far East (Japan-Nationalist China-ChiCom-Siam-Phillipines)

[JRaup]

Reading Zanna's excellent ARR with CORE (as Japan) and it makes me think there should be "victory in china" events for japan. It seems to unrealistic for japan to annex all of china, instead it would have been more likely to annex some coastal areas and some northern areas and then puppet the rest. Thoughts?

The Kiri Project event chain covers this. It creates a Chinese puppet state, and cedes several coastal provinces to Japan.

 

[cfeedback]

Too much of a forced path for Japan?

Couple of questions on the way CORE handles the China-Japan war.

Infra 33 on the 2 main Communist China provinces. While I understand that China is not historically supposed to be annexed, shouldn't the chance at least EXIST? I believe it is impossible to conquer those provinces, as the size and low infra makes even the fastest units reach 0 org before they reach the province. I'm concerned about this because I'm starting a CORE MP game today and I wonder if Japan will even have a chance having to garrison so many troops in the Chinese interior (not to mention those Communist uprising events taking control of random provinces...)

Also, why is it Japan makes NO attempt to continue its conquest of China after a certain date? I was playing the USA, and gave the Axis powers massive amounts of tech, and noticed Japan was making no progress in China. I took military control (they were in the Allies), disbanded all Nat. China units, and they STILL would not advance?!? I noticed when looking through the save file that passivity = 100 for the Japan AI against both Chinas.

I like the fact that the game is much more historical when playing CORE, but I also like to explore "what if" scenarios. I find it hard to believe that if Japan was doing extremely well in China they would make no attempt to conquer it completely...

Thanks for any insight on these decisions.

 

[Ilkhold]

Infra 33 on the 2 main Communist China provinces. While I understand that China is not historically supposed to be annexed, shouldn't the chance at least EXIST? I believe it is impossible to conquer those provinces, as the size and low infra makes even the fastest units reach 0 org before they reach the province.

You are wrong there. It is possible to annex Communist China in a direct assault.

 

[cfeedback]

You are wrong there. It is possible to annex Communist China in a direct assault.

Thank you for putting it so succinctly. Perhaps I gave up too easily in my SP game as Japan, but at the time I tried it with my fastest units (Mot-E) I could not reach the north province quickly enough. Maybe if I waited until I had Mech, all the halftrack speed improvements, and a higher org for my ground troops it's possible...I'm just questioning whether it needs to be THAT difficult.

Shrug...I'm sure you guys know what's best.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Mots are a bad idea against Communist China, they're in mountains that give a penalty to motorised divisions. Also, I would attack from behind, going across a river is a bad idea. Finally you REALLY need high org to take them out.

 

[cfeedback]

Mots are a bad idea against Communist China, they're in mountains that give a penalty to motorised divisions. Also, I would attack from behind, going across a river is a bad idea. Finally you REALLY need high org to take them out.

I'm not talking about fighting efficiency, I'm just talking about the time it takes to travel to the province. I can tactical bomb the Com. China troops to almost nothing, but it doesn't matter if my troops retreat the second they reach the battle. Surely there's no way speed 3 infantry can make it before their org drops nothing?

I will definitely experiment with it some more, it just seems like it was a futile effort in my SP game as Japan.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Surprsingly enough I find cavalry very useful against the Chinese, of course you have to out number them and have decent org (50-70 should do it)

 

[gunboat]

The Kiri Project event chain covers this. It creates a Chinese puppet state, and cedes several coastal provinces to Japan.

So does that mean that in CORE the conquest of japan results in a chinese puppet and annexing of coastal provinces?

 

[Ghost_dk]

So does that mean that in CORE the conquest of japan results in a chinese puppet and annexing of coastal provinces?

Yes

Ghost_dk

 

[JRaup]

So does that mean that in CORE the conquest of japan results in a chinese puppet and annexing of coastal provinces?

No. I may have misunderstood your original post. The Kiri project allows Japan and NatChi to pursue a negotiated peace, similar to Soviet's Bitter Peace. This chain makes NatChi a Japanese puppet, and cedes certain provinces to Japan. Generally this has to happen by 1941, as I think the option isn't available if NatChi is in the Allies. Japan still has the option (if the Chinese no longer wish to fight), to continue on and try and take the whole of China for themselves.

 

[Tormodius]

Surprsingly enough I find cavalry very useful against the Chinese, of course you have to out number them and have decent org (50-70 should do it)

Wow, I searched for it and found some interresting material from the 1907 war:

http://www.militaryhorse.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3085

I think they will be quite useless after the Russians get their T-34 and Americans are running mechs at you. However a treaty with Russia is possible, and could be good idea. Disbanding them could also be an idea, but it would qualify for harakiri, eh?

 

[Tormodius]

Ok guys, I am playing Japan now with 1.07 on 'hard' + 'aggressive', and I am quite satisfied with the challenge. Even though I could invade both China and India without too much trouble, I find taking Guam, Wake, and far-east Soviet provinces quite hard to take. Losing many thousands of Rikusentai's. It is not like the easy pickings on early versions I used to play on 'normal'. (which is 'weakling' compared to EU2) This is perhaps the worst manpower-drainer I have ever played.

India should be much harder I guess, but in my game Scotland got invaded by Irish who fought their own little war, so I guess the UK AI did some redepolyments because they took Scotland back while I went though Bengal... So I think that Ireland may have weakened their indian position.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Wow, I searched for it and found some interresting material from the 1907 war:

http://www.militaryhorse.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3085

I think they will be quite useless after the Russians get their T-34 and Americans are running mechs at you. However a treaty with Russia is possible, and could be good idea. Disbanding them could also be an idea, but it would qualify for harakiri, eh?

Of course that's Cavalry from the Russo-Japanese War which was started in 1904!! Modern cavalry where equipped with AT rifles, light mortars, infantry guns and usually some armour (tanks).

The only use for cavalry for Japan is going through crappy provinces where they have an advantage over armour (who get a penalty for rough terrain) like in China. At least they're better then militia!

 

[Tormodius]

Yeah I guess they will beat the militia quite well, but do they really beat Russian tanks running through Mongolia and Sianking after you annexed China ?

This is where my big manpower drainer is right now, as well as in Persia. Both fronts are dominated by mountain. Now I have many mountaineers stationed and some IM tanks running about losing many battles. Hmm... I really can't believe I could have done better with cavarly there!?

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Well on mountains in general everything that isn't a mountain division get's a penalty for mountains and hills, tanks just get an additional penalty compared to infantry, cavalry, marines etc. cavalry is just much faster then infantry in mountain provinces. Of course they don't have the hard or soft attack of infantry but they're fast.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Maybe Tibet should finally get an event! I'm thinking, possibly for German expedition to Tibet from 1938-1939, It was very weird but the main point ofthis event is that Nazi officials met with Reting Rimpoche, regent of the Dalai Lama, it should be an influencing event and that's it. All in all it was a very bizzare thing to do.

Here andhere are two sites on it.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Maybe Tibet should finally get an event! I'm thinking, possibly for German expedition to Tibet from 1938-1939, It was very weird but the main point ofthis event is that Nazi officials met with Reting Rimpoche, regent of the Dalai Lama, it should be an influencing event and that's it. All in all it was a very bizzare thing to do.

Here andhere are two sites on it.

Actually, it's probably the last country I can use in hands-off game tests...

We have discussed German expedition to Tibet event loooooooooooooooong time, dismissed it as too much "Indiana Jones" style...

 

[Semi-Lobster]

But it's just so weird! Come one, just one influencing event, you don't even need to mention the expedition, just a 'Nazi officials meet with the Tibetan government' event! Maybe if they where looking for the Ark of the Covenant it would be too Indiana Jones-ish

 

[Ghost_dk]

But it's just so weird! Come one, just one influencing event, you don't even need to mention the expedition, just a 'Nazi officials meet with the Tibetan government' event! Maybe if they where looking for the Ark of the Covenant it would be too Indiana Jones-ish

Hell I think its great but then again im a more events proponent

Since Bhutan gets it first events in my Pol Pack 2 I dont mind adding this one as well if there are no really big objections.

Ghost_dk

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Bhutan has events!! Holy crap! How did you find even one for them!?