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India
I have a proposal about including India in 1936 as a puppet of England.
This has loosely been discussed before, but for many good reasons has been shelved.
There are a few points for and against including India as a nation in 1936.
#1. Including India will drastically help an overburdened English AI. Not having to worry about defending India (and possibly Burma) would free up British attention to just 3 areas (England, Africa, Malaya).
#2. Including India will allow for a historic Indian OOB. Currently, in order to get the historic number of Indian divisions by 1942 they have to be included in 1936. There were only three Indian Divisions in 1936, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd. An Indian Puppet would be able to construct its own divisions.
#3. The Indian Army was a different organization than the British Army. There were British Generals of the Indian Army, and British Generals of the British Army. We could create a military leadership, as well as a Government (composed of British officials) for India.
#4. Other nations which were token nations, such as Syria, Lebanon, etc. are included in C.O.R.E., so inlcuding India won't be breaking any convention.
This will help a troubled British AI, and will add a bit of flavour to the British Human player.
I have a proposal about including India in 1936 as a puppet of England.
This has loosely been discussed before, but for many good reasons has been shelved.
There are a few points for and against including India as a nation in 1936.
#1. Including India will drastically help an overburdened English AI. Not having to worry about defending India (and possibly Burma) would free up British attention to just 3 areas (England, Africa, Malaya).
#2. Including India will allow for a historic Indian OOB. Currently, in order to get the historic number of Indian divisions by 1942 they have to be included in 1936. There were only three Indian Divisions in 1936, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd. An Indian Puppet would be able to construct its own divisions.
#3. The Indian Army was a different organization than the British Army. There were British Generals of the Indian Army, and British Generals of the British Army. We could create a military leadership, as well as a Government (composed of British officials) for India.
#4. Other nations which were token nations, such as Syria, Lebanon, etc. are included in C.O.R.E., so inlcuding India won't be breaking any convention.
This will help a troubled British AI, and will add a bit of flavour to the British Human player.
McNaughton said:
A unique tag will be needed for this IMO. Using the IND tag isn't all that accurate. It may not be a bad idea really, if a bit ahistorical. even so, with some of the work done by OHGamer for Victoria, I've warmed up to this idea a bit more. To do this, we'll need to do the following:
1. Leader and Minister file. No elections and such here, so just a pool for each should be required. We'll have to edit the UK leader file, to move all those UK leaders who served in the Indian Army to the new file. May have to back fill in some Brit leaders though. same for ministers, though this shouldn't be as bad.
2. OOB. Again, shouldn't be that big a problem, as it's readilly available.
3. techs. May be a point of argument.
IMO, British India should be some way behind Britain, especially in terms of armor, aircraft, and doctrines. The Indian Amry was a bit of a bastard child of the British Army, and wasn't fully up to normal UK standards. This applies to industrial techs as well.4. AI. Should be defensive, and mainly supply expeditionary forces to UK. We may be able to get a bit more historical E.Africa campaign with this.
Some other pro's and con's:
1. Fudging the historical record. There is a greater case for Syria and Lebanon than India really. The Levant states had local parliaments, and elections, while India was ruled by the Governor-general on behalf of the King. The only effective separation was in terms of teh army, which was locally raised, but lead exclusively by British officers. this was more a hold over from the 19th century than any intentional policy platform.
2. The addition of India should help bring the UK back to earth in terms of resources. While Britain will still get a good portion of India's resources, it will require more convoys, and reduced the ridiculous stockpiles that the UK can accumulate in teh pre-war years. Also will make convoy intercepts more significant for both the UK and Germany.
3. Ahistorical diplomacy. By adding India, we open the door for some potentially game altering diplomacy in the subcontinent. The potential for China or Japan to have undue influence in India only grows with a quasi-indpendnat Indian nation. we will also have to factor in what happens to India when the UK gets puppeted or annexed.
4. Will India start in the Allies, or be neutral at start? this too will have some wide ranging effects. If India starts in the Allies, given 4 years of pre-war build up, will this alter the balance of power in 1939?
5. How will India act in regards to her neighbors? It won't do to have India starting wars with her neighbors early on, and changing the game balance. Same will apply to her neighbors. How will they be acting/reacting with an Indian nation active in game?
Would a puppet India have any sort of navy or would they all be British ships in India? (I'd go with the latter)
Also, I think there should be an event for Newfoundland independance. In 1946 Newfoundland gained independance from the UK. She only became a province of Canada in 1948
Also, I think there should be an event for Newfoundland independance. In 1946 Newfoundland gained independance from the UK. She only became a province of Canada in 1948
Semi-Lobster said:
It's all Royal Navy for India. No "native" ships at all AFAIK.
An event might be an idea for Newfoundland, but it'd just be flavor. It would be a waste of a tag to give them independence in game.
JRaup said:
And Inner Mongolia isn't?
Speaking of Newfoundland (as a province of the UK. It was a dominion in 1933 but economic problems from the Great Depression forced her back into colony status) they should have one manpower and start of with a 50 strength militia division
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Re: Newfoundland.
It was 1974 before Newfoundland raised a second serving battalion, so I don't think a MP value for NFLD is practical. Also, a Militia Division (representing the battalion) is overstating their strength. Generally, the Newfoundland military was under the command of the Canadian Army, so it sort of makes sense to give Newfoundland to Canada once the war starts (symbolizing the fact that it was basically up to Canada and Newfoundland to defend Newfoundland), even though politically they were only merged in 1949.
It was 1974 before Newfoundland raised a second serving battalion, so I don't think a MP value for NFLD is practical. Also, a Militia Division (representing the battalion) is overstating their strength. Generally, the Newfoundland military was under the command of the Canadian Army, so it sort of makes sense to give Newfoundland to Canada once the war starts (symbolizing the fact that it was basically up to Canada and Newfoundland to defend Newfoundland), even though politically they were only merged in 1949.
True. Their manpower in HoI sense was blown to pieces at the Somme in WWI, especially for such a small pop as Newfoundland's. But there was a Newfoundland militia/homeguard raised in November 1939 and was only put under Canadian command until June 14th, 1940
Semi-Lobster said:
Well........Inner mongolia has a greater chance of expanding than does the Newfies. And provides a much needed buffer along that particular frontier. But hey, you asked! :wacko:
And IIRC, the Newfie home guard unit was less than 200 strong at its height, and that was on paper. Though I'm sure one of our Candian posters can correct my memory on that..
JRaup said:
There where just as well equipped other home guards. If you check my location, I am a Canadian poster. Currently I'm researching the history of the 57th and 59th Newfoundland Heavy Regiments (Royal Artillery). Any help would be nice!
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Semi-Lobster said:
For some strange reason, I had associated you with some SE Asian nation. Maybe all that work on the Siamese Navy did it...
I think I may have a bookmark somewhere for Home Guard units (strengths, organization, deployments), for the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. I'll sort through what I've got and see if I can find it again.
JRaup said:
Well I'm Cambodian but I'm born and bred in Ottawa! (Go Sens Go!)
For a good site on the British empire and her regiments I suggest this site.
Semi-Lobster said:
That would explain it. Guess my memory isn't that bad after all....just mostly..
And yes, I have that site already.
But i have one somewhere that is dedicated to the HG units. Something like Dadsarmy.com or some such.PS- Sens? Ugh....go Habs baby!
JRaup said:That would explain it. Guess my memory isn't that bad after all....just mostly..
And yes, I have that site already.
PS- Sens? Ugh....go Habs baby!
Ya, the Habs are going... to the golf course, 2-0 I'm afraid! The Bruins are doing pretty well, especially Raycroft. Enough about hockey, I'll look into that dadsarmy.com site
Independent Newfies
I find myself intregued by the concept of an independent Newfoundland. I didn't realize the chronology of which provences were a part of the Dominion (ignorant American I guess).
We could make this independent Newfoundland a puppet of Canada. That would make the viable and their troops would likely get sent into Canada as expeditionary forces. That would free up Canadian troops for service in Europe. It might only be a division by 1940, and it might be a militia division, but they would be seperate troops.
I have lost track of where we are in terms of tag availablility. If we use one for a colonial India, we might be getting low. If we have more than three available after India, I think it would be fun to have an independent Newfoundland. MDow
I find myself intregued by the concept of an independent Newfoundland. I didn't realize the chronology of which provences were a part of the Dominion (ignorant American I guess).
We could make this independent Newfoundland a puppet of Canada. That would make the viable and their troops would likely get sent into Canada as expeditionary forces. That would free up Canadian troops for service in Europe. It might only be a division by 1940, and it might be a militia division, but they would be seperate troops.
I have lost track of where we are in terms of tag availablility. If we use one for a colonial India, we might be getting low. If we have more than three available after India, I think it would be fun to have an independent Newfoundland. MDow
I don't know where to put this so I'll put it here as Cyprus was under the British during this time. Cyprus needs some manpower! Whatever their misgivings about British rule, Cypriots were staunch supporters of the Allied cause in World War II. This was particularly true after the invasion of Greece in 1940. Conscription was not imposed on the colony, but 6,000 Cypriot volunteers fought under British command during the Greek campaign. Before the war ended, more than 30,000 had served in the British forces.
Maybe add a series of +10 manpower events for UK rather than add MP to the province.
Steel said:
Maybe, it's up to you! But of course this would only be after the Axis declares war on Greece.
Zerli said:
Quick code idea for this:
event = {
id = XXXXXX
country = ENG
random = no
trigger = {
war = { country = ENG country = GER }
NOT = { exist = GRE } #Greece must have fallen
control = { province = xxxx data = ENG ) #UK must control Cyprus
random = 40
}
name = "Cypriot Volonteers"
desc = "Can't beat em away with a stick"
style = 0
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1940 }
offset = 240
deathdate = { day = 30 month = decemeber year = 1947 }
action_a = {
name = "Sign em up"
command = { type = manpowerpool value = 6 }
}
}
Just a thought on it. It triggers roughly every six months or so as along as the Uk and Germany are at war, and Greece has fallen.