Well, E-VIII was rather well known to be a pro-german king.Originally posted by Copper Nicus
That's huge drop of warentry... why?
OTOH I hope that sucha a huge drop in warentry would not unbalance the game.
Cheers
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OTOH I hope that sucha a huge drop in warentry would not unbalance the game.
Cheers
15 points less of warentry means a lot of IC lost (due to rise of consumer goods demands) - of course later it would go back to normal, but it could possibly delay whole war and seriously affect their research and building schedule. For now, there is no event which would lower warentry so much.
In other words - effect would be similar to 1-2 months of strategic bombing attacks.
Ok ive read it, and I feel that it was a wrong decision to exclude it on th principle of 'itl never happen'. The event occured and it was a chance of peace in 1941, obviously Churchill wouldnt give in that easy, but shouldnt it be the players choice if Churchill was like that?
True, and I agree to stop it being to ahistorical I agree with what JRaup says.
Churchil war a warmongerer bless his soul, Chamberlain was a peacemaker. Chamberlain in 1941 would have concidered it as the UK was alone fighting the Axis. So i agree it should oly come up with Chamerlain, and as a B option, but it is significant and warrents inclusion more then an 'it happened' event.
Ok, let's assume that event with a and b choice is in play.
Possiblities:
1) AI commands UK, chooses b. Western War is ended, Germany attack Russia (if they didn't that earlier). And what to do later? UK AI goes braindead or fights only Japan (but later war in Europe starts again as Japan eventually joins Axis).
2) Human player commands UK. And why exactly UK player would want to choose this option?And even if he chooses it, what would he do next?
In effect we would create option which would be only used occasionally by AI only, would mess game of any other nation player (German player prepares to attack UK, but sudenly peace is signed! Canadian player prepares to add to Allies effort and then there is no effort to join, etc.).
This event is fun as background, but as a real option... I'm scared.
Possiblities:
1) AI commands UK, chooses b. Western War is ended, Germany attack Russia (if they didn't that earlier). And what to do later? UK AI goes braindead or fights only Japan (but later war in Europe starts again as Japan eventually joins Axis).
2) Human player commands UK. And why exactly UK player would want to choose this option?And even if he chooses it, what would he do next?
In effect we would create option which would be only used occasionally by AI only, would mess game of any other nation player (German player prepares to attack UK, but sudenly peace is signed! Canadian player prepares to add to Allies effort and then there is no effort to join, etc.).
This event is fun as background, but as a real option... I'm scared.
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
15 points less of warentry means a lot of IC lost (due to rise of consumer goods demands) - of course later it would go back to normal, but it could possibly delay whole war and seriously affect their research and building schedule. For now, there is no event which would lower warentry so much.
In other words - effect would be similar to 1-2 months of strategic bombing attacks.
I think only the USA and SOV get increased production over time relating to increase WE. You should be able to test this very easily by starting up as ENG and triggering the Rhineland incident a couple of times.
I agree that 15 is quite a lot though, I don't think the abdication should have 3 times the effect of the Rhineland event.
It affects all Allies - maybe in 1.04 it was changed, but in 1.03b I played UK and ticking "warentry clock" really helped me in development.
I haven't really had time to test this too much. -15 is kind of a number I pulled out of the air, thinking that it would delay the war by about 8-12 months, which I thought was about right. But that value could certainly be nerfed.
But like I said, the second event could be eliminated entirely if it's not liked.
EDIT: I bumped it down to -5. Seems a little more realistic.
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The historical chain went along these lines:
Poland bought enigma machines for its postal service. The realized that the Germans were using it for their communiques, but lacked the proper keys to decode them.
War breaks out. Poland offers enigma machines to Britain and France. Both reject the offer, not believing their value, and being arrogant about winning the war quickly.
Poland falls. France accepts Polish refugees, and take enigma information from them. Briatin again rejects the offer.
France falls, Battle of Britain begins. Britain now wants the enigma stuff, but most of it was lost in France. They get two enigma machines, but lack the right keys to decode. Problem solved by SOE and Bletchley Park.
The abdiocation chain needs to go like this, for historical purposes:
1. Edward decides to marry Simpson (no event necessary).
2. Crisis in Government: Simpson situation unacceptable (Event 1)
3. UK government consults the commwealth (event 2)
4. Commonwealth responds. 3 options:
a. Allow Edward to marry, Simpson to be queen.
b. Allow Edward to marry, Simpson to be consort.
c. Force Edward to abdicate, install George VI as King.
Choice options would be based on the historical choices made by the Commonwelath parliaments. One event per Commonwealth nation.
5. Based on the Commonwelath responses, a final decision is made. (Complicated due to number of possibilities)
This in all likelyhood would be a long and complex event chain, to best represent what happened.
As for effects, installing George VI shoudl reduce dissent, reflecting the displeasure over Edward's choice of wife. Possibly a 5pt move towards democracy. WE should only be reduced by -5 (equyivalent to Rhineland) if Edward stays on the throne. Possibly a 5pt move towrads fascism if Edward remains King.
Wow, that's a lot of stuff going on. I just didn't like seeing Edward still on the throne at the end of the game, that's all.
I had no idea that Parliament consulted Commonwealth parliaments on the issue.
The UK government had to consult the Commonwealth by Law. The only response I'm sure of is Ireland's, which was to allow Edward to remain King, and Simposn as consort. Of course that was unacceptable really. But that response was for other reasons. FWIW, according to Commonwealth law, the UK parliament had to consult the other parliamenst on the issue. They were supposed to call their parliaments into session within 1 week of the request, and provide their decisions to the UK PM.
On a side note, Edward was still King of Ireland for 1 week after he abdicated, allowing de Valera to make some political moves to separate Eire further from the Commonwealth.
Very interesting indeed.
How would the British parliament take the Commonwealth responses into account, and, more importantly, how can we translate this into the game? I'm not against making the Abdication as politically complicated as it really was, but I would have no idea how to tie all those events together to get some sort of coherent outcome.
Wrong. For detailed information of what happened with Enigma try the timetable or simply The german Enigma site.
Cheers
Edit/ I hope you were not basing your informations on the famous "Enigma" film, as its' plot was purely fictional.
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Some observations on UK in CORE
OK, and now something completely different...
I've run some test games of CORE (with alpha techmod, but it doesn't matter) to check how my new research priorites for AI do.
When I checked UK in 1941 I've noticed that they reached 40% of dissent! It really affected their IC and seriously slowed tech development.
Most of the time, UK gets:
- 10% dissent from Spanish Civil War,
- sometimes war starts not thanks to Danzig or War, but Allies (read - UK) declare war thanks to German attack on Austria/Chechoslovakia/Poland(not allied) 20% dissent,
- other events (?) 10%.
For AI even 20% of dissent is high, but 40%...
Maybe we should script some events to cheer those buggers up?
OK, and now something completely different...
I've run some test games of CORE (with alpha techmod, but it doesn't matter) to check how my new research priorites for AI do.
When I checked UK in 1941 I've noticed that they reached 40% of dissent! It really affected their IC and seriously slowed tech development.
Most of the time, UK gets:
- 10% dissent from Spanish Civil War,
- sometimes war starts not thanks to Danzig or War, but Allies (read - UK) declare war thanks to German attack on Austria/Chechoslovakia/Poland(not allied) 20% dissent,
- other events (?) 10%.
For AI even 20% of dissent is high, but 40%...
Maybe we should script some events to cheer those buggers up?
Interesting. This contradicts parts of several sources I have. What I have refer to a purchase of Enigma machines by Poland in 1929-30, the "commercial versions" referred to. As the machines were a commercial flop, they could be had cheap prior to 1937.
And I haven't seen "Enigma," or at least not as I recall.
You see the problem. Right now, I'm not sure as to how it will code out, if it will at all. It can be done, but my question would be, is it worth it? after a rough outline, I get like 15 interlinked events for this. A bit of a memory hog for the engine, and considering the CORE mod as a whole. Not sure how to slim it down, but I'll get something more definitive on paper and post something this weekend.
The problem with the sources on Enigma is that during almost 50 years after WWII polish part of the work has been completelyt denied. Every child knew that these were the brits at Bletchley Park who did it. Full stop. But recently the things have changed - finally. The Brits gave back lots of polish intelligence documents and opened their archives related to Bletchley Park and - at last - credited Rozycki, Zygalski and Rejewski. There is a nice article on it on that site (here).
Cheers
Re: Some observations on UK in CORE
Good point. FYI the "Outrage over German aggression" (bolted.txt) events already has a -5 dissent effect but it's trigger conditions are a bit iffy IMHO. I'd prefer to change it to just atwar = GER, as it stands now the event will normally never fire and continues to be checked throughout the entire game, not least because game engine changes pretty much guarantee a UK DOW on Germany if they start a war.
Chamberlain crisis (id = 272022) seems like a good candidate, ie the A choice could have a -5 dissent effect for the nation rallying around Churchill. I think that event should also have the Oslo and Norway conditions removed for now, replace with Denmark instead perhaps. This is because the AI has a hard time getting to Norway right now.
BTW, the Spanish Civil War dissent hit sounds too high, perhaps 3-5 points would be more reasonable. Was there a public outcry and protests due to non-intervention? If not, the dissent hit should be small and perhaps the event could have a bigger DI hit instead.
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
For AI even 20% of dissent is high, but 40%...
Maybe we should script some events to cheer those buggers up?
Good point. FYI the "Outrage over German aggression" (bolted.txt) events already has a -5 dissent effect but it's trigger conditions are a bit iffy IMHO. I'd prefer to change it to just atwar = GER, as it stands now the event will normally never fire and continues to be checked throughout the entire game, not least because game engine changes pretty much guarantee a UK DOW on Germany if they start a war.
Chamberlain crisis (id = 272022) seems like a good candidate, ie the A choice could have a -5 dissent effect for the nation rallying around Churchill. I think that event should also have the Oslo and Norway conditions removed for now, replace with Denmark instead perhaps. This is because the AI has a hard time getting to Norway right now.
BTW, the Spanish Civil War dissent hit sounds too high, perhaps 3-5 points would be more reasonable. Was there a public outcry and protests due to non-intervention? If not, the dissent hit should be small and perhaps the event could have a bigger DI hit instead.
Re: Re: Some observations on UK in CORE
Good idea... Lowering UK dissent to 10-15% would be nice to give them some impact on European war theatre - for now Germans do what they want if not oposed by human player.
That's small thing you notice when you play "observer" game...
BTW, US look ok with dissent (in 1941 10%), but they lack resources - (in 1941 they had no more oil left!)is it normal?
Good idea... Lowering UK dissent to 10-15% would be nice to give them some impact on European war theatre - for now Germans do what they want if not oposed by human player.
That's small thing you notice when you play "observer" game...
BTW, US look ok with dissent (in 1941 10%), but they lack resources - (in 1941 they had no more oil left!)is it normal?
AFAIK the US should be drowning in resources. Potential issues are over-building of IC, convoys/events sending oil to allies, loss of capital (unlikely), poor conversion tech (unlikely) or bad world trades (quite likely).