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Semi-Lobster

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Upon furthur review of the event(s) propsed about the island of Crete, I'd have to disagree with it being included because that wasn't historically accurate. On April 23, 1941 King George II and the Greek government abandoned Athens for Crete and on the 27th Athens fell after the British made a slow withdrawl from the city. Then on May 23rd 1941 the King and government fled to Egypt. Then on May 29th the provisional capital of Greece, Canea.
 

Semi-Lobster

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I know with the early speculative war over the Rhine with France, Germany, and later Poland, would Czechslovakia have intervened? I know Copper Nicus and Halibutt are experts on Poland (I wonder why! ;) ) but was there any plan by the Czechs to take advantage of any German weakness in the 30's?
 

MateDow

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Semi-Lobster said:
I know with the early speculative war over the Rhine with France, Germany, and later Poland, would Czechslovakia have intervened? I know Copper Nicus and Halibutt are experts on Poland (I wonder why! ;) ) but was there any plan by the Czechs to take advantage of any German weakness in the 30's?

This is purely my opinion

I think that Czechoslovakia would have come in on the side of the Allies in an early war. This was before the Allies stabbed them in the back at Munich. The Allied Powers were behind the creation of Czechoslovakia in the first place and the threat of war is probably what brought Hitler to the negotiating table in the first place. By cutting Czechoslovakia off from the Allies it opened up the eventual annexation. I think that in the event that Czechoslovakia still exists they would resist German aggression wherever possible. I know that the Polish and Chech governments have a good relation in modern times, but I don't know if that was true in the late 30s. That could make for some interesting possibilities if Czechoslovakia still exists in 1939 when war happens. MDow
 

Semi-Lobster

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MateDow said:
This is purely my opinion

I think that Czechoslovakia would have come in on the side of the Allies in an early war. This was before the Allies stabbed them in the back at Munich. The Allied Powers were behind the creation of Czechoslovakia in the first place and the threat of war is probably what brought Hitler to the negotiating table in the first place. By cutting Czechoslovakia off from the Allies it opened up the eventual annexation. I think that in the event that Czechoslovakia still exists they would resist German aggression wherever possible. I know that the Polish and Chech governments have a good relation in modern times, but I don't know if that was true in the late 30s. That could make for some interesting possibilities if Czechoslovakia still exists in 1939 when war happens. MDow

I was referring to the 1936 war that sometimes occurs with France and Poland fighting Germany alone, although this is somethi very interesting that's never brought up much.
 
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Greetings.

I recently made a suggestion concerning the improvement of the possible 'Reoccupation of the Rhineland'-war and someone helpfully suggested that I repost it in this thread, as this is apparently where the actual debating and decision-making takes place (or so I am told).

-----

I see that this event has received some interesting additional finetuning in the latest CORE patch, with Poland now also seizing the opportunity to gain claimed territory. I'm not sure whether CORE 0.80 has already progressed beyond the 'feature lock' stage or not by now, but could this event chain be expanded upon some more?

For example, if Germany actually managed to conquer France in this situation without starting off the 'real' WW2 (Low Countries, etc.), it could choose to only demand Alsace-Lorraine and reparations instead of the usual Vichy/total conquest deal (although that would still be an option, of course). This would have the very nice result of getting the three Maginot-Line provinces and whatever French colonies were German before WW1, a ton of resources and diplomatic influence and maybe some IC (which would all in turn be subtracted from French belongings). British and American war entry should decrease somewhat with this option (by the same amount as through the original 'France threatens war' event, kind of a "well, don't say we didn't warn you"). Creating Vichy should still be the A option, however.

The same goes for Poland: If they attack as a result of this event chain without WW2 proper having started yet, Germany - after a victory - should get the chance (as a non-A choice) to only take the provinces lost after the Great War and let the rest remain independent (or, as a third option, a puppet, to mirror the French Vichy event) for a modest resource, DI and IC gain. The 'Eastern Poland to the USSR' event would function independently of this, although national claims to the German-again territories should be awarded with this new peace event as well.

The whole point of these new choices would basically be to get more time to stock up on soldiers and weaken some of your (most likely) later enemies while NOT messing with the big guys yet. You know, they started it, all I want is peace, etc. :)


Finally, there is a problem I have noticed with the current state of the event chain: Upon beginning of the 'real' WW2, France does not get an event to automatically rejoin the allies if it dropped out earlier due to the Rhineland event, even if both France and the Allies are fighting against Germany. This should naturally be remedied in future versions.

I think that's enough for now. Any comments or suggestions from the scenario wizards?

-----

The original thread can be found here.
 

thevaliant

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I agree with the above post.

I think that, should France DOW Germany in 1936, and then Germany (as she will), DOW Belgium, drawing the Allies into WWII early, France should be given an option to rejoin the Allies and a (say) -20% dissent hit.

Else Belgium will die quickly and not be able to co-ordinate her defence with France and France will then die quickly because she's suffering from a 40% dissent hit.

Seems to me that a French declaration of war in 1936 would result in a better result for Germany in Hearts of Iron, despite the reality of the situation being that Germany should be in serious trouble.

Thoughts?
 

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Well, imo Germany indeed should have a chance of winning a 1936 war. Not bigger than, let's say, 15%, but still. Also, shouldn't Germany have a dissent hit too? After all Hitler would be seen by many Germans as a looser who drew Germany into serious trouble...
cheers
 
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Halibutt said:
Well, imo Germany indeed should have a chance of winning a 1936 war. Not bigger than, let's say, 15%, but still. Also, shouldn't Germany have a dissent hit too? After all Hitler would be seen by many Germans as a looser who drew Germany into serious trouble...
cheers

I'm sure the Nazi propaganda machine would have been able to handle this, even more so since this is actually a defensive war for them.
 
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Halibutt said:
Well, of course, but note that the German nation in 1936 was still before the serious brainwashing campaign that occurred later. I'm sure Hitler wouldn't have 100% support on that.

Where are you taking all this from?

The brainwashing started back in 1933 (technically even earlier, since the NSDAP was active since the twenties; but the complete silencing of all dissenters only took place after Hitler was appointed chancellor) and was well implemented by 1936.

But regardless, pretty much everyone would be able to rally their country to a defensive war, especially if the cause for it was the breaking of the Versailles treaty (which almost every German considered to be very disagreeable, to say the least), so definitely no dissent hit for Germany here.
 

Semi-Lobster

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I got the events that led to war between Latvia and Poland over Wilno/Vilnius and of course, Poland annexed them, but is this historical? Would Poland actually annex them or would they have rather set up a puppet? And how does Latvia win?
 

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Semi-Lobster said:
I got the events that led to war between Latvia and Poland over Wilno/Vilnius and of course, Poland annexed them, but is this historical? Would Poland actually annex them or would they have rather set up a puppet? And how does Latvia win?

You mean Lithuania?
We can develop the chain more to create puppet (or at least give Poland a choice). Lithuania Wins? How?! :)
 

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Bulgaria are pleased to see our proper territories

restored, lost since the Balkan Wars."

No this teritory was never an aim of Bulgaria,and it wasnt lost in Balkan wars.
Bulgarian lost half of Macedonia(which they never even had,not even in the first Balkan war).There is a minority,but reaaaaly small,probably les than 1% of all population of Serbia(at least now).

Nothing important but...
 

Semi-Lobster

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Copper Nicus said:
You mean Lithuania?
We can develop the chain more to create puppet (or at least give Poland a choice). Lithuania Wins? How?! :)

Woops! I mean't Lithuania! I got them mixed up! I think giving Poland the choice would be good. Lithuania winning? I dunno, taking Warsaw or something, well there is an event for the Ethiopians if they (somehow) manage to fight the Italians out of East Africa
 

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Semi-Lobster said:
Woops! I mean't Lithuania! I got them mixed up! I think giving Poland the choice would be good. Lithuania winning? I dunno, taking Warsaw or something, well there is an event for the Ethiopians if they (somehow) manage to fight the Italians out of East Africa

We can develop it more, I just don't give it high priority, since it's very unlikely ahistorical scenario... especially Lithuanian victory is rather unlikely. :)

As for the historical background - Polish campaign against Lithuania would rather not lead to the annexation, puppeting is much more likely option. So if we prepare more events on that, after the annexation Poland would choose puppet as option A and annex as an option B. It would cause some dissent though, as far right elements of the polish society (that were rather active right before the war) would not like that.

As for the Lithuanian victory... I guess it's impossible without other nation support. After following annexation (by allied Lithuania and Germany for example), Lithuania would be probably content with Vilnius and Bialystok provinces, while the rest would go to their ally.
 
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Hey Copper Nicus, I'm considering scripting myself some of the aforementioned France-Germany-Poland war events, but seeing as I'm not exactly experienced at this type of stuff it might be better to get some advice from one of the pro's (i.e.: you).

What could be considered appropriate war indemnities in game terms, both for France and for Poland? I don't remember how many resources they have, say, 6 months into the game (I'm guessing France is approaching the 99999 99999 99999 99999 mark due to it's colonies, while Poland has a deficit, although my memory might be off).

I also suppose I'd have to change and/or sleep several events if this route is taken, but it seems all so confusing and disorganized to an outsider :( You seem to have at least two Danzig or War events in the files for example, one with a choice, one without.
 

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I started scripting some sort of bitter peace for Germany prior to 1939 some time ago, but forgot about it and abandoned the work. Anyway, I thought along the lines that in case of an early Allied victory there would be two ways of handling the German problem. One would be similar to what happened after WWI (semi-independent lands) with notable Allied occupation zones (POL to the Oder plus East Prussia, FRA getting all the Rhineland and perhaps even more). Other choice was to leave a rump German state and give all of Germany's neighbours a piece of this Sauerkraut cake. POL, FRA, UK (N. Sea coast with Bremen), DEN (Southern Schlezwig), CZE (not sure what). The occupation zones could be given back to the Rump Germany gradually, let's say, by 1948.

Anyway, the absolute minimum for the Allies would be Rhineland for FRA and Elbing and Oppeln for POL. And of course re-creation of all the swallowed minors if any of them was consumed.
Cheers