C.O.R.E HOI - Central/Eastern Europe

[markpalm1]

Now try to imagine, that Hitler's Re-occupation of Rheinland failed. France has reacted by sending troops to Germany. Wehrmacht is not strong - Lutwaffe got only old planes and not enough pilots - Panzerwaffe doesn't exist... Poles would use it, as they used their chance in 1920 taking Vilnius from Lithuania and in 1938, when they took Cieszyn from Czechoslovakia.

And Pilsudzki suggestion of preemptive strike on Germany is a fact. Not that anyone was interested in that - it was in early 30-ties, so no one was taking Hitler seriously.

Thx, that makes sense, a territory grab. Germans had constructed fortifications east of Berlin because they thought an attack like that was possible.

I have another question that I can't find the answer to: why didn't the allies declare war on the Soviet Union when it invaded Poland in 1939?

 

[unmerged(18738)]

My event string has four Polish options (written for AI and Human control):

* press Germany to cede Oppeln/Elbing (85%)
* press Germany to ced Oppeln/Elbing AND Konigsberg (super-aggressive) (5%)
* declare war (5%)
* no action (5%)

I am still working out proper German responses for the two territory claim demands. It's easy to say NO (95%) and YES (5%), but I think it needs to be a bit more complex.

Still, an AI Poland will often be throwing themselves upon their own sword, as it were.

 

[Zerli]

I am alive, I am alive!

Nizda, yes, you are right, I mistook them for each other. I will restore original picture of Milutin (as crappy as it is) and put Milan separately.

On another issue, it has been pointed out to me that Petar Bojovic, whom I've carelessly added to the leader list for Serbia, is totally inappropriate for that role. Keep calm, I'll make sure these fixes go into v0.7 (CORE, not my pack, my pack is now part of CORE).

Mhhhhm. I'm having too much fun right now conquering the Iberian peninsula to worry about the Balkan tavern....

Zerli

 

[unmerged(14683)]

My event string has four Polish options (written for AI and Human control):

* press Germany to cede Oppeln/Elbing (85%)
* press Germany to ced Oppeln/Elbing AND Konigsberg (super-aggressive) (5%)
* declare war (5%)
* no action (5%)

I am still working out proper German responses for the two territory claim demands. It's easy to say NO (95%) and YES (5%), but I think it needs to be a bit more complex.

Still, an AI Poland will often be throwing themselves upon their own sword, as it were.

I guess we should consider new, aggressive AI for Poland (for the 36 ahistorical offensive). But I'm pretty sure that German answer NO should trigger the war on 100%.

5% might look like nothing, but doing little math...

Poland got 95% chance to go aggressive. It leaves 5% as peace.

Germany got 95% chance to go for war path. Tha gives 0.90 (polish decision to claim)x0.05 (german chance for yes) = about 4,5% chance for peace.

In summary, whole chain gives 9,5% chance for the peacefull solution.

If we add to that another event (Polish reaction on NO), that adds 0.90x0.05x0.95 = approx. 5% chance for peace.

You see, the longer the chain, the higher the chance for stange results. Two stages should be enough (alternatively Poland should have only one option -WAR - in case of German negative answer).

 

[unmerged(18738)]

OK, then I would think you have:

Polish Proposal (one of the four initial options) -->

Germans say NO (95%) to territory claims, which triggers -->

Poland declares war (95%), nothing (5%)

Really small chance that war does NOT break out, no matter what.

 

[Ivan Bajlo]

On another issue, it has been pointed out to me that Petar Bojovic, whom I've carelessly added to the leader list for Serbia, is totally inappropriate for that role.

You added Bojovic? :wacko:

I really need to reinstall HoI back and check what else you have messed up.

Let's hope it will work under XP.

 

[Zerli]

Mmmm. Ngghh..

Yes, I am silly. Yes, I know better now. Yes, he never should have been there. I am yanking him out. And I will fix the mismatched pictures for Milan and Milutin Nedic. M'kay?

As for the rest, it is in v0.7, in testing phase. Ivan, I've taken the inspiration from your stuff. Croatia has a chance at indepedence, and so does Serbia. Yugoslavia gets partitioned, Greece is occupied, and so on. If you want to see it all in action in v0.64, go to:

http://www.inet.hr/~ddjanjes/core/

and download the latest pack file. I think I am allowed a mistake or two when helping incorporate 250+ events, inc files, OOBs, and other things all at once...

Stay tuned, CORE v0.7 is somewhere around the corner.

Zerli

 

[Ivan Bajlo]

I Have Found Oil!!!!

Yes that is right I have actually found hard data about oil production!

In Medimurje (small triangle of Croatia between Mura and Drava river) which was annexed by Hungary and then reannexed by ? after occupation of Hungary, anyway Germans were pumping oil there and production for January 1943 was 193 tones, estimate for 1942 is about 2000 tons, German officer for agriculture Josef Schardt wasn't very pleased and during 1943 production reach 1000 tons a month and 2000 tons a month during 1944. Three year production is estimated at 73498 tons which was processed for need of Wehrmacht at refinery Caprag near Sisak and Bosanski Brod!

Also from Gojila near Kutina estimate is 91 980 000 liters of oil being pumped during three years. From April to November 1941 German reports 381820 liters of oil.
During 1942:
March 677 tons
April 585 tons
May 783 tons
June 962 tons
1943
July 4061 tons
August 5538 tons
September 7181 tons
October 3556 tons
November 4298 tons
Decembeer 5003 tons
1944
January 7195 tons
February 9733 tons
March 10033 tons
April 4535 tons
May 8667 tons
June 10583 tons
of crude oil

Also during first year NDH export to Germany was horses, cattle, eggs, fruit, vegetable worth 16 millions marks, vine worth 7 millions marks, 850000 lamb, goat and sheep skins (ok this would be useful in Victoria), at lest 400000 tons of bauxite ore, 260000 tons of iron ore, 50000 tons (siderita?) 6000 tons of magnesium ore, also wood worth 35 millions marks and processed wood in part for barracks worth 30 millions.

 

[JRaup]

>SNIP Ivan's NDH export list<

OK, now the tough question. What's this all translate into in game terms?

I'm guessing that one of the Croatian provinces whould get oil, but my recall of the HoI map is somewhat muddled. Which province(s) should get the oil, and how much? Also, based on your numbers, I gather that some provinces should also get a boost in Steel and coal. Suggestions?

 

[Hogar]

I'm guessing that one of the Croatian provinces whould get oil, but my recall of the HoI map is somewhat muddled. Which province(s) should get the oil, and how much? Also, based on your numbers, I gather that some provinces should also get a boost in Steel and coal. Suggestions?

All places mentioned are in HOI Zagreb Province. As it turns out, this province already produces 8(?) units of oil already. Is this relevant to the numbers Ivan is quoting?

 

[unmerged(18045)]

On another issue, it has been pointed out to me that Petar Bojovic, whom I've carelessly added to the leader list for Serbia, is totally inappropriate for that role. Keep calm, I'll make sure these fixes go into v0.7 (CORE, not my pack, my pack is now part of CORE).

Oh so you did read my email.I was tripping you changed it or something.

Concerning oil there are today large quantites of oil and gas in Banat(Hoi Beograd province).Dont know anything about earlier about extractions of oil.

I might try to look somewhere but I presume that if I do it will be prorably valued 4 in hoi terms.But maybe I do not, aaand than its 0! : )
Also Kosovo(Pristina) is the richest in Europe with some coal type mine.
Dont know the name of it.So I didnt really help a lot did I
Err if you look at the Nedic(German) Serbia in 1941 youl see that notrhern Kosovo is Serbia's althought it was to go all of it to the Italians and Albanians.Thats were those mines are stationed,and German kleft that in Serbia so thay could extract it.

 

[Ivan Bajlo]

>SNIP Ivan's NDH export list<

OK, now the tough question. What's this all translate into in game terms?

Got no idea. :rofl:

I'm guessing that one of the Croatian provinces whould get oil, but my recall of the HoI map is somewhat muddled. Which province(s) should get the oil, and how much? Also, based on your numbers, I gather that some provinces should also get a boost in Steel and coal. Suggestions?

There were important mines near Banja Luka, Sarajevo and Mostar and if you check German offensives main goal was to push partisans away from them.

 

[Ivan Bajlo]

I might try to look somewhere but I presume that if I do it will be prorably valued 4 in hoi terms.But maybe I do not, aaand than its 0! : )
Also Kosovo(Pristina) is the richest in Europe with some coal type mine.
Dont know the name of it.So I didnt really help a lot did I
Err if you look at the Nedic(German) Serbia in 1941 youl see that notrhern Kosovo is Serbia's althought it was to go all of it to the Italians and Albanians.Thats were those mines are stationed,and German kleft that in Serbia so thay could extract it.

Not to sure about prewar production of oil in Vojvodina and Eastern Slavonia, otherwise Germans would have fought harder.

Maybe adding Pristina coal to Nis province, so Italian can grab province but don't get too much out of it?

Also there was some mine in Macedonia over which Italians and Bulagirans actually fired few shots to see who will control it.

 

[Dibo]

Also there was some mine in Macedonia over which Italians and Bulagirans actually fired few shots to see who will control it.

It was quite close to fight actually in 1941. The Bulgarian troops sent to guard that mine were ordered to shoot if the Italians show up. The relations between the Italians/Albanian troops and the Bulgarian forces in Macedonia were quite tense well until 1943. Only the shadow of the Nazi Germany prevented both sides from armed confrontation.

 

[Zerli]

As things stand, Zagreb province has a source of oil worth 8. Croatia, when created, gets Zagreb, Osijek, Rijeka, Split, Mostar, Dubrovnik, Banja Luka and Sarajevo provinces. Sarajevo has 40 coal and 15 steel normally, and Banja Luka has 10 coal. This in my opinion is enough for Croatia to be economically stable.

One of the modifications I've made to Yugoslav INC file is adding a little bit of rubber to Sarajevo province, and increasing coal and steel production there a little. This adds up to 30 rubber, 50 coal, and 25 steel. This extra production keeps Yugoslavia from economic meltdown. Since it is in an INC file, as soon as province changes hands, it dissapears.

As for moving a little coal production into Nis province, I think this is a good idea. Perhaps even moving a little steel production into Mostar province from Sarajevo as well.

Zerli

 

[Hogar]

As for moving a little coal production into Nis province, I think this is a good idea. Perhaps even moving a little steel production into Mostar province from Sarajevo as well.
Zerli

I am not sure what steel represents in the HOI terms, but there was no significant production of iron related products in Mostar province. It would be more appropriate to locate it in Banja Luka province (Iron mines in Ljubija) or Zagreb (steel works in Caprag (Sisak)). This amount should be small (5 IC).

 

[Ivan Bajlo]

One of the modifications I've made to Yugoslav INC file is adding a little bit of rubber to Sarajevo province, and increasing coal and steel production there a little. This adds up to 30 rubber, 50 coal, and 25 steel. This extra production keeps Yugoslavia from economic meltdown. Since it is in an INC file, as soon as province changes hands, it dissapears.

Maybe event for Germany to gain oil and iron in 1943 and 1944 to represent massive increase in production if these provinces are in axis hands. Not big deal in current scenario but if someone ever makes 1943 and 1944 scenario these events could really make player fight for provinces - resources.

 

[unmerged(10168)]

Civil wars

If there are Hitler assasination events there (and they are successful - particularly pre-1944) shouldn't there be some sort of German civil war with the 'moderates' particularly the Army fighting against the SS?

Richmond

 

[JRaup]

If there are Hitler assasination events there (and they are successful - particularly pre-1944) shouldn't there be some sort of German civil war with the 'moderates' particularly the Army fighting against the SS?

Richmond

Not really possible to do. We'd have to create a new nation or two, to represent the sides, determine who gets what in terms of units and provinces, design new minister and leader files for each, and all that for a 1 in 100 chance of happeneing. While I would agree that it would be interesting, and a worthy feature, the over all worth of it is limited. It's better to abstract it into events, so you don't kill the German player at a critical phase.

 

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Romanian army WW2

In case you guys haven't seen this yet:

http://www.worldwar2.ro/organizare/?article=16&language=en

Really good site!
Richmond