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Ivan Bajlo

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Originally posted by madner
Yep it is very novel like, but I doubt anyone else would have bought the book otherwise ;)
As for Croatia, yes I had noticed that, but on the other hand, I have seen other sources claiming basicly the same (e.g supresion of croatians etc...) however this changed somehow after the Macak-Cvjetkovic (spelling?) agreement, which funnily had several points mentioned in the book.

Cvetkovic-Macek agreement created Banovina Croatia, from several banovina (administrative region in Kingdom of Yugoslavia), while satisfying Croats, it made everyone else angry since now both Slovenians and Serbs wanted to create there own banovina, this also made Bosnian Muslims angry since they would be split between Serbs and Croats, and Macedonians who would end up under Serbs. Also Montenegrins were split for ages between unity with Serbia and independence and this would explode during WW2.

Hopefully I'll have most it ready for next version of my mod. ;)
 

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Originally posted by Copper Nicus
For now nothing happens in Yugoslavia, it would be good to change it.

You obviously haven't tried my mod. :D
 

unmerged(10750)

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Originally posted by Halibutt
Please post them here as soon as you get back home. Can't wait to start critisizing :D

But seriously, Hitler backing down on the Pommerania issue is somehow tricky. He'd have to declare his desinteressement quite early (1937? 38?) and confirm it every now and then. Moreover, he'd have to back down on annexing the rest of Czechoslovakia and perhaps slow down the rearmament program (which AFAIK cannot be checked by the game engine) in order to push Poland away from the allies. Note that even without the direct threat from its' western neighbour, Poland would still seek for allies. Soviets were out of the question, central european alliance proved to be impossible to create (and cannot be even reflected in the HoI engine as there's no place for any more alliances).. So the only choice were the Allies or Germany...
Cheers

I know, the problems are quite dizzying. It's really hard to tell exactly what would have happened had the Germans backed down over Danzig. Certainly, given the temperament of the German leadership, war was almost inevitable at some point.

What I don't like is that an AI-controlled USSR has no means to be proactive concerning Poland. If the Germans refuse to deal with the Bolsheviks, AI-controlled USSR will just sit there.

Of course, an AI-controlled USSR will just sit there for 90 days (or however long) after a DoW anyway, but that's a separate issue...

But I will post the events tonight, when I get home.
 
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While Germany had some claims to regions in question (German minority), most of the disputed areas were populate either by Catholic Slovenians or Croats or hostile population so Yugoslav/Serbian claims hardly hold, same as Bulgarian claims to huge parts of Serbia or Greek to Asia Minor.

True, but then you have to decide to either:
a) make all provinces but Serbia proper non national
b) give them those claims.

Quite obvius, if they could manage those Croatian/Slovenian then they could manage some more. ;)

Cvetkovic-Macek agreement created Banovina Croatia, from several banovina (administrative region in Kingdom of Yugoslavia), while satisfying Croats, it made everyone else angry since now both Slovenians and Serbs wanted to create there own banovina, this also made Bosnian Muslims angry since they would be split between Serbs and Croats, and Macedonians who would end up under Serbs. Also Montenegrins were split for ages between unity with Serbia and independence and this would explode during WW2.

Maybe a federation of republics could have been be the proper solution, at least for a while. :D

Yugoslav military was hopelessly obsolete; motorisation was virtually non-existent until 1940, radios were considered next to useless, most of the artillery was a decade or more old. Tactic progressed little from WWI and most of generals feared Germany and had little will to fight. Result was some 150 German solider dead and 300,000 Yugoslav POW.

Obsolete compared to Germany, but not compared to they neighbours. Besides, most WWII combants had artillery pieces that were over a decade old, the famous US 155mm gun was a slightly modiefed 1918 French Schneider etc...
 

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As promised, here's my mods to the Molotov-Ribbentrop events. This has been tested, but as I've said, I'm sure there's flaws to it. Let me know what you think.

1) Event #s 2050 & 2051 (GER) are the same, with one change -

for both events, replace option "c" with (leave out the stars, of course)-

*************************************
action_c = {
name = "ACTIONNAME2050C" # No deals with the Bolsheviks!
command = { type = sleepevent which = 2027 } # GER
**************************************

Event # 2027 is the original "Danzig or War" event, which won't be used in the case of a refusal to M-R.

2) Events 2014 and 2017 (German reaction to Soviet refusal of regular and limited M-R, respectfully) changed. Replace option a on BOTH events with the following -

***************************************
action_a = {
name = "OK"
command = { type = sleepevent which = 2027 }
# command = { type = hate which = SOV value = 10 } #TODO_add the commands and system#
***************************************

The commented out part is the original effect of Soviet refusal, which is nothing. It was commented out in the original event.

Again, all we're doing here is sleeping the original "Danzig or War" event.

3) Add this event to the end of the German event file. I've numbered it "2035" and it doesn't have any conflicts that I know of, but of course that can be changed.

********************************************
#########################################################################
# Danzig or War (Last chance for peace) (No Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact)
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 2035
random = no
country = GER

trigger = {
government = fascist
exists = POL
NOT = {
OR = {
owned = { province = 645 data = -1 } # Danzig
alliance = { country = GER country = POL }
war = { country = GER country = POL }
puppet = { country = POL country = GER }
ispuppet = GER
}
}
}

name = "Danzig or War (Last Chance for peace) (No Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact)"
desc = "The failure of von Ribbentrop to secure Soviet agreement to war with Poland has set back German war plans. The question now is to proceed with our demands, or to try a diplomatic option."
style = 0

date = { day = 30 month = august year = 1939 }

action_a = {
name = "Time to back down"
command = { type = warentry which = ENG value = -2 }
command = { type = warentry which = FRA value = -2 }
command = { type = warentry which = USA value = -2 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Final Ultimatum - Danzig or War"
command = { type = trigger which = 3602 } # POL
}

}
********************************************

This is the alternate "Danzig or War" event, the one you get without an M-R pact. It is exactly the same, except it triggers a slightly different Polish response.

PLEASE NOTE: I have modified it (by switching which is option A and which option B) to make AI Germany far more likely to back down without an M-R pact. You may prefer otherwise. I don't like it a lot myself, but I think the Germans should be less likely to attack without an M-R pact. I wish there was a way to make it so that the AI has a 50-50 chance of choosing option "a", instead of an 85% chance. Oh well.

4) In event #s 2013 and 2016 (Historical outcome and Soviet agreement to limited pact), change option "a" to this -

**********************************************
action_a = {
name = "OK"
command = { type = sleepevent which = 2035 }
}
**********************************************

In the event of an M-R being signed, the alternate "Danzig or War" event goes to sleep.

In addition, in event # 2015 (Soviets offer unholy alliance), change the commands to -

*********************************************
action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME2015A" # Refuse alliance, but stand by pact
command = { type = trigger which = 2603 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 2035 }
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME2015B" # Let the world tremble!
command = { type = alliance which = SOV }
command = { type = alignment which = fascist value = -40 }
command = { type = alignment which = communist value = 40 }
command = { type = dissent value = 15 }
command = { type = trigger which = 2602 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 2035 }
}
}
*******************************************

Again, as the Soviets have accepted the M-R pact, we're sleeping the alternate "Danzig or War" event.

To be continued...
 
Last edited:

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Sorry this is taking so long, but this Rube Goldberg approach is the best I can do...

5) Remember the alternate Poland event that's triggered by the alternate "Danzig or War" event? Here it is; just tack in into the Polish file. Again, no conflicts that I know of...

********************************************
#########################################################################
# Danzig or War (No Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact)
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 3602
random = no
country = POL

# Triggered by GER 2035

name = "Danzig or War"
desc = "Ribbentrop asked the Poles for the return of Danzig and a strip of German territory across the Polish corridor on which a German-run road and rail link between East Prussia and the rest of Germany could be built. This time Hitler met real resistance. On 31 March 1939 the British and French guaranteed the borders of Poland. Encouraged by the guarantee, the Poles were not about to compromise. Then, as 1939 progressed, the position of the Soviet Union became critical. If Stalin allied himself with Britain, Germany would run the risk of a two-front war if she pushed the world to conflict. British attempts at negotiation with the Soviet Union were, however, lacklustre, for both ideological and practical reasons (Stalin had purged thousands of officers from the Red Army and the Soviets were perceived to be a third-rate military force). However, German intransigence had alienated and isolated the Soviets. By refusing to back down, the Poles knew they could plunge the western world into total war."
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Then it is War"
command = { type = trigger which = 2034 }
command = { type = dissent value = -5 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Fold"
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 645 }
command = { type = trigger which = 2029 }
command = { type = dissent value = 5 }
}
}
***********************************************

It's exactly the same, from a Polish perspective. Action A, however, produces a quite different result, as we shall see.

6) Almost done, I swear. Add one more event to the end of the Germany file -

*******************************************
#########################################################################
# Danzig or War - WAR! (No Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact)
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 2034
random = no
country = GER

# Triggered by POL 3602

name = "Danzig or War - WAR! (No Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact)"
desc = "Despite not having secured the agreement of the Bolsheviks, the Germans plunged ahead in their war plans, confident that whatever the outcome, they would be successful."
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "OK" # Fortune will grant us victory!
command = { type = war which = POL }
command = { type = dissent value = 10 }
command = { type = trigger which = 2650 } # SOV
}
}
********************************************

This event is what's triggered by Polish refusal to the "Danzig or War" event. The only real difference is that it triggers event #2650 (SOV). This event is actually already sitting there, without any triggers, in the Soviet event file. You can look, if you don't believe me. One thing - it says that there is a description and text for event #2650 in text.csv - there isn't. You need to write your own.

That's it! It should work. It's just really kind of circuitous. If you have a way to make it simpler, just let me know.
 

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Originally posted by Ivan Bajlo
You obviously haven't tried my mod. :D

I know about your mod - I was talkin about CORE... :D

How about merging your Balkan events into CORE? I know that some time ago Aietus was interested in creating someting about balkans, but it was like 2 months ago... I've to ask Generalissimo about that.
 

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Originally posted by czolgosz
ok, i understand more or less what you wanted to do (i think :D )....
but, which is the point of that?
i can surelly use the event 2035, select "Time to back down" , and then declare war 1 hour later, what prevents me for doing that?
nothing...
so, what does we solve with that? :confused:
i think that a better way, instead of adding that, will be to make the USSR attack Germany, so if you not sign MOL-RIB pact, then invade Poland without the bless of the USSR, then they will attack you... that way, you will think better to invade Poland without USSR blessing. ;)
 

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Originally posted by Generalisimo
ok, i understand more or less what you wanted to do (i think :D )....
but, which is the point of that?
i can surelly use the event 2035, select "Time to back down" , and then declare war 1 hour later, what prevents me for doing that?
nothing...
so, what does we solve with that? :confused:
i think that a better way, instead of adding that, will be to make the USSR attack Germany, so if you not sign MOL-RIB pact, then invade Poland without the bless of the USSR, then they will attack you... that way, you will think better to invade Poland without USSR blessing. ;)

I definitely know how easy it is for a human player playing Germany to skirt these events. I don't play Germany, so I was doing it mainly for an AI-controlled Germany.

But I'd be glad to hear any different ideas on the subject.
 

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Originally posted by czolgosz

But I'd be glad to hear any different ideas on the subject.
there you have one :D
copy & paste:

"i think that a better way, instead of adding that, will be to make the USSR attack Germany, so if you not sign MOL-RIB pact, then invade Poland without the bless of the USSR, then they will attack you... that way, you will think better to invade Poland without USSR blessing"
 

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Originally posted by Steel
I asked for volunteers in the USSR thread, all the historical data is there :D If nobody else is interested then I can script and test it.
i can't do it, i am working on another thing....
THE GERMAN TIBET EXPEDITION!!!! :p LOL :D
no, don't start again, it was just a joke :D
 

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Originally posted by madner
True, but then you have to decide to either:
a) make all provinces but Serbia proper non national
b) give them those claims.

Quite obvius, if they could manage those Croatian/Slovenian then they could manage some more. ;)

Istria was never considered part of Yugoslavia until end of WW2.

Problem is called Treaty of Rapallo from November 1920 in which Italy officially renouncing Italian claims on Dalmatia in return obtained the port of Zara.

Also 4 Jun 1920 By the Treaty of Trianon Hungary formally surrenders claims to Croatia, Slavonia, Vojvodina, Bosnia-Hercegovina, western Banat, Prekmurje-Medjimurje to Yugoslavia.

So in order for claims to be legit we would need event in 1920: Sign treaty yes/no. ;)

Originally posted by madner
Obsolete compared to Germany, but not compared to they neighbours. Besides, most WWII combants had artillery pieces that were over a decade old, the famous US 155mm gun was a slightly modiefed 1918 French Schneider etc...

Yugoslavia can easily conquer all of its neighbours and much more (I also took Italy :D) so no problem there.
 

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Originally posted by Generalisimo
there you have one :D
copy & paste:

"i think that a better way, instead of adding that, will be to make the USSR attack Germany, so if you not sign MOL-RIB pact, then invade Poland without the bless of the USSR, then they will attack you... that way, you will think better to invade Poland without USSR blessing"

I admit my scripting skills are still rudimentary -

Is there a trigger for an event that triggers when another nation DoW's a third nation?

I know you can set up an event that checks every so often if certain triggers have been met, but is there a trigger so that an event for nation A (SOV) hits when nation B (GER) DoWs nation C (POL)? Of course, you can use NOT = OR and then all the event IDs for the M-R pact.
 

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Originally posted by czolgosz
I admit my scripting skills are still rudimentary -

Is there a trigger for an event that triggers when another nation DoW's a third nation?

I know you can set up an event that checks every so often if certain triggers have been met, but is there a trigger so that an event for nation A (SOV) hits when nation B (GER) DoWs nation C (POL)? Of course, you can use NOT = OR and then all the event IDs for the M-R pact.
yes,
war = { country = GER country = POL }
but it only checks if GER and POL are at war, so if Poland declared war against Germany, you get the same effect as if Germany declared war against Poland (the historical thing). :rolleyes:
 

unmerged(10750)

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Originally posted by Generalisimo
yes,
war = { country = GER country = POL }
but it only checks if GER and POL are at war, so if Poland declared war against Germany, you get the same effect as if Germany declared war against Poland (the historical thing). :rolleyes:

Thanks. I won't have any time at all this weekend, but next week, I'll see what I can do about setting up some triggers for event 2650. It's obvious that Paradox had plans for it, but scrapped it for some reason. That seems a shame.

As for Poland DoWing Germany, that's a risk I'm willing to take. The only risk there is from a human-controlled Poland. I could set it up to only start checking AFTER the M-R pact triggers to minimize that risk, maybe...
 

brandnew70x7

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I think we need to put level 1 forts in Constanta and polesti for Romania. In a book I have, the map has forts along the lower part of the Siret River.
 

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Originally posted by Burris
I think we need to put level 1 forts in Constanta and polesti for Romania. In a book I have, the map has forts along the lower part of the Siret River.


Are they pre-1936? If they weren't there in 1936 it should be an AI setting to build forts rather than pre-placed forts in the scenario setup.