C.O.R.E BUGS

[Semi-Lobster]

The overall design approach has been that militia is and always will be rubbish, ie will not gain stats from most techs. Perhaps a late war model (with various tech pre-reqs) could have better stats.

Woops! Put this in the wrong thread to! o A late war or even just an alternate militia model would be good to

 

[unmerged(12760)]

i´m just waiting for my improved close support planes getting ready researched ( still flying old ju87 ). i noticed that the 30mm gun is neccesary to research, why i don´t know exactly - only a veery few ground attack planes had 30mm guns ( the hs129 only 20mm IIRC ). but okay not so important.

but why must i research self propelled rocket artillery to get to 30mm aircraft guns and finally to a better CS ( close support ) plane ? this sounds weird.

this means in my game before i can even fly some decent plane i must research for 290 or so days the rocket arty, than for more 80 days or so the 30mm, than for 82 more the hs129..... seems you need to study the tech tree of each mod you try before hand... but isn´t it *a bit* unlocical that all..?

thanx for the explainations for the other things.

btw: just had 2 CTD´s ( wonder why.. ) . could there be a problem if you take over the mil. command of allies ?

HS129 weapons:

Armament:
Hs 129B-1/R1 & Hs 129B-1/R-4:
Two 7.92mm MG 17 Machine Guns in nose.
Two 20mm MG 151/20 cannon in nose.

Hs 129B-1/R2:
Two 7.92mm MG 17 Machine Guns in nose.
Two 20mm MG 151/20 cannon in nose.
One 30mm Mk 101 cannon mounted under fuselage.

Hs 129B-1/R3:
Two 7.92mm MG 17 Machine Guns in nose.
Two 20mm MG 151/20 cannon in nose.
Four 7.92mm MG 17 Machine Guns in ventral box.

Hs 129B-2 Series:
Two 13mm MG 131 Machine Guns in nose.
Two 20mm MG 151/20 cannon in nose.
Various weapons were fitted inclusding 37mm BK 3.7 and 75mm BK 7.5. An interesting weapon was a battery of six 75mm smoothbore recoiless rifles that fired downawrds and to the rear. This system was fired by an automatic magnetic trigger that fired when the aircraft flew over metal objects. This system was reported to be quite successful.


as you see only 1 modell of the whole series has 1 single 30mm gun.
also i would order my designers, not to wait till a 30mm gun become
available but still build the aircraft with 20mm guns, while waiting for
the 30mm come into production.

 

[WoMOS]

Strat Bombers the better Nightfighters

Playing as Germany it looks as if (british/all?) strategic bombers don't get a night fighting malus. So even if they bump into my fighter cover, at night they often win. Checking the pop-ups reveals nighttime-Malus only for my fighters, none for the Strat Bombers.

Now I could understand if they had no nighttime malus on defense, but also no on offense? Given the fact that my fighters can't find the bomber to shoot them down (hence the malus) how exactly do the bombers find my fighters to do so?

Edited: Correction. This holds for all English planes. No wonder the English won the Battle of Britain, they were all naturally IR-sighted.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

i´m just waiting for my improved close support planes getting ready researched ( still flying old ju87 ). i noticed that the 30mm gun is neccesary to research, why i don´t know exactly - only a veery few ground attack planes had 30mm guns ( the hs129 only 20mm IIRC ). but okay not so important.

but why must i research self propelled rocket artillery to get to 30mm aircraft guns and finally to a better CS ( close support ) plane ? this sounds weird.(...)

I've to agree that 30mm cannon requirement is somehow artificial - during the designing of the air tech tree I was looking for something that would represent increasing number of the heavy armament used on the attack planes (4x20mm cannons on the Tempest/Typhoon, heavy guns 30/37/57mm on the German planes). Those weapons were not standarized in any way - some nations used simply more of the old guns, some developed new weapons, some modified exisiting ones... 30mm cannon as the requirement represents this tendency. I know, it's not the best representation, but I couldn't find a better one.

Putting 30mm cannon so high in the artillery tech tree was just game balance adjustment - in previous version of the mod this tech was even higher in the tech tree.

There is still many techs (gun pods, rockets, armour plates) that allows players to create versions of the CS planes that are notably better then "basic".

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Playing as Germany it looks as if (british/all?) strategic bombers don't get a night fighting malus. So even if they bump into my fighter cover, at night they often win. Checking the pop-ups reveals nighttime-Malus only for my fighters, none for the Strat Bombers.

Yes, strategic bombers can be annoing in CORE - they have quite high defense stats, so better keep serious fighter presence on the North Sea Coast.

Now I could understand if they had no nighttime malus on defense, but also no on offense? Given the fact that my fighters can't find the bomber to shoot them down (hence the malus) how exactly do the bombers find my fighters to do so?

I know, it's fundamental problem with HoI weather modifiers - they change all the statistics of the plane, not only attack OR defense. Not moddable really, hope that Paradox will be able to correct it somehow in new patches... We have limited weather modifiers in CORE 0.8 to limit the problem (in CORE 0.7 fighters had much worse effectiveness at night then now).

 

[Schnee0]

WoMOS, I believe It is for the AI - so it is harder to rape their most often unescorted bombers

Basically pretend that the AI bombers are always escorted by fighters even though there is no fighter squadron present

 

[Steel]

Events 172123 and 172124 don't seem to work well together since 172124 can trigger at the same time than 172123 (and then 172124 can't be slept anymore). So 172124 (or better the triggering Italian event) should depend on 172123 (i.e. no refusal of transit until Germany has determined its policy in this respect).

Also the third choice of the Altmark incident (1002001) is triggering event 1002002. It is not clear to me how this should work (at least it didn't work for me) since 1002002 has its own conditions, which - among others - require "Fall Weseruebung" to have happened (172049) which will only happen if the FIRST choice of 1002001 was selected. So Denmark will never fold to German pressure.

Oh, and I also noticed that Norway allying with Germany as result of the Altmark event is probably a disadvantage for Germany instead of the advantage it should be. Norway has to be fortified by German troops anyway (The Norwegians have only 1 Inf for each beach) and Germany is not getting anything in return. At least some steel trade like with Sweden should be set up if Norway allies with Germany.

Good points, thanks for the feedback

 

[WoMOS]

Yes, strategic bombers can be annoing in CORE - they have quite high defense stats, so better keep serious fighter presence on the North Sea Coast.

No, see my edit. Same holds for british fighters. I just got a stack of 3 MR Fighter, 3 CS Bombers and 3 PW Bombers nearly slaughtered _in occupied France_ by 2 British Fighters (which were supporting an enourmously unsuccesfull amphibious landing) during one night when I brought them next to the beachhead. More entries missing in .inc files?

Well at least I threw the 25 divisions the british brought in 1 by 1 back into the sea and am now driving through a soldier-free Britain (VH/VH). It looks the british AI is a little bit too much into landings in 1940.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

No, see my edit. Same holds for british fighters. I just got a stack of 3 MR Fighter, 3 CS Bombers and 3 PW Bombers nearly slaughtered _in occupied France_ by 2 British Fighters (which were supporting an enourmously unsuccesfull amphibious landing) during one night when I brought them next to the beachhead. More entries missing in .inc files?

Well at least I threw the 25 divisions the british brought in 1 by 1 back into the sea and am now driving through a soldier-free Britain (VH/VH). It looks the british AI is a little bit too much into landings in 1940.

Huh, Seems like UK was using Night Flyer trait commander, they are totally unbalanced (in vanilla HoI as well) and adds something like 25% efficiency at night. Maybe they were using better planes (Improved?) as well?

Here goes part of the UK fighter modifiers code:

night_attack = -50
snow_attack = -30
rain_attack = -30
storm_attack = -30
night_attack = -30
night_defense = -40

In case of strategic bombers, night attack modifier is:

night_attack = -40

Almost all classes of planes got the same modifiers applied. All countries got the same set of modifiers. As you see, the penalties are not radical. They just lower the effectiveness of both fighting sides at night. Most of the time, defender (-40%) at night is the intercepting fighter, attacker (-50%) - intercepted plane on the surface attack mission. Both sides should suffer lower casulaties thanks to the modifiers. With similar level of technology and no Night Flyers around, it works pretty good.

 

[WoMOS]

Strat bombers without night penalty

No, see my edit. Same holds for british fighters.

Correction. The british fighters had a "Nightflyer" Commander (although I must say with a penalty of night penalty of 40 such a guy is worth his weight in gold). But the british Strat bomber don't have. And they also don't have a night penalty (see pictures below).

 

[WoMOS]

Huh, Seems like UK was using Night Flyer trait commander, they are totally unbalanced (in vanilla HoI as well) and adds something like 25% efficiency at night.

I would say it cancels night penalty.

In case of strategic bombers, night attack modifier is:

night_attack = -40

Um, my mod-core/scenarios/193/uk.inc says:

        strategic_bomber = { 


# Generally lower effect at night/weather

            night_attack = -10 (a bit better at night)

Although that doesn't explain why they have none in the end. 1.06 bug?

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Um, my mod-core/scenarios/193/uk.inc says:

        strategic_bomber = { 


# Generally lower effect at night/weather

            night_attack = -10 (a bit better at night)

Although that doesn't explain why they have none in the end. 1.06 bug?

Night_attack is put there twice, -40 total. This might be the reason, why the penalty doesn't show up. If it's not, it's something with 1.06 code...

 

[WoMOS]

Night_attack is put there twice, -40 total. This might be the reason, why the penalty doesn't show up. If it's not, it's something with 1.06 code...

The savegame says for the British

        strategic_bomber = { 
            rain_attack = -30 
            storm_attack = -30 
            muddy_attack = 1 
            night_attack = -30

(and no more night attack entries). So assuming that the value is taken from the savegame and not from the inc files ...... its a 1.06 bug!?!

Savegame for anyone interested is here [96kbit/s only]. Just wait a week or two for the british bombers to come through Erfurt.

 

[Prussian_Nerd]

Well, it's now almost four in the morning where I live. I'll go to sleep now after a long C.O.R.E. night, after reporting some possible bugs that is...

Bear with me, I'm tired. First the easier to explain bug. Is it a bug or a feature that when I set up convoys, that as soon as I decide to ship supplies the amount of ships needed for transport doubles immediately?

Example: I just conducted operation Sea Lion successfully. After garrisoning troops all over the British Isles, I set up convoys to supply them with needed military goods. I decided to send the supplies to Belfast from Brest, considering that it is the shortest distance between the continent and North Ireland. The convoy window informs me that I need 13 convoys to supply the single division garrisoning the region. That seems pretty high already, as soon as I click on supplies though, the ships needed total an incredible amount of 27! Just to supply ONE division from the nearest point from the continent. I checked this "feature" on the other convoy route I had set up previously, Hamburg-Coventry. The amount of ships needed also doubles when shipping supplies. When I "de-click" the supplies, the amount of ships needed are decreased by half. Can you give some insight into what's happening? And even if it's a feature btw, 27 transports is an unbeleivable amount to supply one lonely infantry division.

The second "set" of problems I'm having has to do with Vichy France. I decided to set up the Vichy government. Everything functions as previously. This time however two Free French divisions, whom I had beaten and sent back waving their white flags before actually pressing the button "set up Vichy France" remain on the map. When the two divisions end marching back to their starting points, both regions turn to Free French regions automatically. No problems there either I beleive, this has happened before to me. I sent my divisions against them and conquer the regions in question which are automatically tranfered to Vichy France. Now I have the following problems; when I press on the diplomacy icon, all of South France shows Free France instead of Vichy France. The only Vichy Frnace spot on the entire South French territory shown in fact is one of the two regions that I had to reconquer, the last one I liberated actually, from the the two lonely Free French divisions left over. There is absolutely no Vichy France capital either. You know? those red and white circles around Berlin, Washington, and the like? It shows a generic red star only. Also, Vichy France has yet to produce absolutely ANY military equipment since I created it. It's now been five months btw. In fact, absolutely no Vichy French divisions/fleet/air squads appeared on South France whatsoever while during the creation of the puppet state. It seems everything did work as expected outside of the continent regarding Vichy French colonies, just not on the European continent. So I decided to invite them to my alliance. They accepted, however it costed me at least 8 or 10 diplomacy points! I'm not sure if the last one is just new or also a bug of some sort.

Last one is more of a question than a bug report. The U.S. decided to send me an ultimatum regarding the British Isles; because I now desperately needed the diplomacy points, I decided to opt for the "seek a diplomatic solution." They declared war on me regardless, yet they did NOT join the Allies. They are shown as neutral when I click on the diplomacy screen. Now I may be at war against the Allies AND the U.S. but it seems the U.S. should join the Allies if they declare war on me. This did not happen. Why?

I have a few more bones that I want to chew, but this is enough for now... :wacko:

 

[Kevin Mc Carthy]

The overall design approach has been that militia is and always will be rubbish, ie will not gain stats from most techs. Perhaps a late war model (with various tech pre-reqs) could have better stats.

A reasonable alternative might be to give militia 25% of the INF effect of certain techs and a greater % of certain doctrines. Just a thought.

 

[unmerged(15262)]

If you have War Entry = 100, just join the Allies (choose the diplomacy screen and suggest the alliance to the UK).

Ya, that's what I did. Realy a great job on core 0.8

 

[unmerged(14683)]

A reasonable alternative might be to give militia 25% of the INF effect of certain techs and a greater % of certain doctrines. Just a thought.

I was thining more about separate, late unit, with some "static" (not really modified by techs) but relatively high attack, defense and organization values, but with few key techs as prerequisites (doctrine, individual AT weapons, improved SMG's as the representation of the more common use of automatic weapons).

PS. By high values I think of something like SA 10 HA 5 GD 30 org 45, so this militia would be quite similar to the early war infantry division.

 

[Steel]

I was thining more about separate, late unit, with some "static" (not really modified by techs) but relatively high attack, defense and organization values, but with few key techs as prerequisites (doctrine, individual AT weapons, improved SMG's as the representation of the more common use of automatic weapons).

PS. By high values I think of something like SA 10 HA 5 GD 30 org 45, so this militia would be quite similar to the early war infantry division.

That's the same thing as I had in mind, basically I guess I see the late war militia more as a "new concept militia" that has relatively little in common with the Spanish civil war forces, African colonials, Chinese 2nd line troops and other early war troops which we represent with militia units. Instead I see it as a light infantry unit with almost no artillery and organic transport, but quite high number of submachine guns, panzerfaust (or equiv.) and a static defence doctrine. In other words they would only be available once you've gone a fair bit down the infantry tree and land doctrines, but the artillery techs are not important for them. I'd see them as having decent HA/SA, poor org/GD and very poor movement. As for efficiency I'd see them as good in dense terrain (urban, forest etc) and rubbish in open (desert, open), overall I'd be looking for them to have a decent punch but poor lasting power.

 

[Executor]

Is it just me, or are naval bombers useless in CORE? My 6 basic naval bombers have sunk all of 5 transports while suffering significant casualties in the process. In vanilla 1.06, I found them quite effective, yet in CORE, they take equal or higher damage than they inflict whenever they fly out, even during the day with clear weather against small fleets. I sincerely regret building them, since I grew tired of constantly reinforcing them and sent them to guard Berlin. Having an extra 6 panzers would have helped me a lot more.

I thought CORE was supposed to historical? Then why is that in Aug 1940, when I began Operation Barbarossa, Russian troops (not to mention UK and US) are better than mine. I loaded up as the Soviet Union before the attack, and their infantry has a 50% higher defence (49 versus my 34), slightly higher SA and HA values, and higher org. If I hadn't build level 4 forts all along the Polish border, I would have gotten slaughtered. When the war began, the Soviets had a -21% dissent penalty when fighting, which would correspond to 42% dissent (they DoWed me, Latvia, and Estonia). A few months later, no dissent penalty. I guess the AI never stops cheating.

I'm not sure if this is a CORE-specific problem, but I noticed that when my panzers where fighting in Mozyr, they were taking a -60% penalty for snow, and another -50% penalty for lack of weather equipment. I had researched Winter War Experience and Arctic Weather Equipment before I attacked Russia. What do I have to do to get the proper equipment?

Lastly, as leader of the Axis, I decide who can and cannot join. So what gives Mannerheim the right to force his way in without my consent in the Finnish Continuation War? I'm planning on annexing Finland once I've taken care of Russia, and it'll be awfully difficult if we're allied. I had to keep reloading until Finland chose the second option (no war), which took a while.

 

[Dievs]

Started a 1.06/CORE 0.8 game as Germany, noticed the following things -

1. There was a message in the game log about Mussolini accepting invitation to Germany in 1936, a full year before the invitation events fired for me. Is this OK?

2. The different post-war tank techs don't seem to deactivate each other, as for other tanks. Is it intended that way or a bug ?

3. Typos in tech descriptions -
Total war economy - deploing;
Field artillery 75mm+ seems to be missing description;
5000+ kg freefall bomb - In one place 'toll boy', in another 'tall boy'