• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.

unmerged(17249)

Recruit
May 26, 2003
1
0
Visit site
One of the Most important and missunderstood events of the WWII took place in Balkans. I think you should please give a notice to them a bit.

1. The Italians after the conquest of Albania they formed troops of native albanian people who consisted the initial force of Italy on the attack against Greece.

1.1 After the italian Surrender to the allies and the Ocupation of Italy from the Germans, the Germans formed Waffen SS troops consisted of albanian natives who had been trained in Romania and 500 of them fought until the "Bitter End" in berlin against the ussr. The soviets executed all the survivors.

2. The Italian Attack on Greece in 28.10.1940, the loss of Italy and the the declaration of war against greece by the Gerrmans in 6th of April in 1941.

2.1 The germans attacked in Metaxa's Line the fort of the province
Thessaloniki and had great losses. So the germans in order to be in time with their plan Barbarossa they attacked on Yugoslavia and then attacked Greece from the province of Skopje. Since the Mass of the greek armies were in Vlore and in thessaloniki fighting the 280.000 Italians in albania and the 55.000 germans in the Bulgarian borders, the germans from Yugoslavia found no resistance in Ioannina and surrounded the greek army and they conquered the continental greece.

2.1.2 The presence of The german troops in Bulgaria frightened
turkey. Turkey informed Germans that they would have war if the bulgarians did not push back 80km the bulgarian army from the turkish-bulgarian borders. Also at the same time Turkey declared "no attack" promise to greece.

2.1.3 The attack of germans in Balkans delayed 2 whole months the german troops and the Barbarossa plans with the most well know affects(russian winter etc.)

2.2 The presence of British troups in greece since February 1941 because greece was consider an allied country.

2.2.1 The heroic battle of Crete where New Zealanders, Australians, British and Greeks fought the German Paratrooper invasion. The last German Paratrooper Huge operation since after that most units had been completely anniliated.

2.2.2. Greek troups still existed after the fall of greece. Greek navy was a threat in the aegean seas against the italians.
The greeks also fought in El-Alamein and in Rimini For the liberation of their former enemies.

2.3. Vlore ( Southern Albania or Northern Epirus for the greeks)
Was set free 3 times by the greek forces. 1st in the 2nd balkan war, 2nd in the 1st world war where vlore was indipented greek state but the italians helped the albanians to absorb it to their state. 3d in the 2ndWW. They still live 350.000 greeks there.

2.4 Greece was under a tripple occupation. The islands (exept Crete), Ioannina and Agrinion was uder the italians, thrace or the province of thessaloniki in the HOI was under the bulgarians and the rest to the germans.

3 After the German conquest of Yugoslavia Mihailovic a Serbian formed an army concisted by "troica" 's and created a great army of chetniks who had set free parts of Montenegro and southern yugoslavia. The croatian-communist Tito with the initial help of the nazi's in support and tolerance attacked to Mihailovic and finaly won him. From this win the tito's Partisan were the monopoly force in Yugoslavia.

4. Romania has national claims on Northern Greece because of a small minority of romanian speaking goatshepards Vlaxi. Bulgaria has national claims in Thessaloniki for geographical reasons, the same happens with yugoslavia and also because of some slavian speaking people in northern greece.

I hope i covered most of the issues. I hope you keep them in mind in further versions of C.O.R.E. Feel free to add anything.

all the the facts and sources are at your disposal anytime.

ps. sorry for the spell errors
 
Dec 28, 2002
2.103
0
Visit site
After the German conquest of Yugoslavia Mihailovic a Serbian formed an army concisted by "troica" 's and created a great army of chetniks who had set free parts of Montenegro and southern yugoslavia. The croatian-communist Tito with the initial help of the nazi's in support and tolerance attacked to Mihailovic and finaly won him. From this win the tito's Partisan were the monopoly force in Yugoslavia.

I dunno for the rest but this is massivly wrong, the nazis created a croatian fascist state and a serbian fascist state. The Tschetniks were serbian nationlist who for the most part of the war tried to expand they own Pan serbian goals. (E.g ethnical cleansing etc...)
They calculated that active resistance versus Germany was to dangerus and never did so, however they helped the germans many times in they offensives versus the communist/ people's army forces. They were however soundly beaten by the partisans.
 

brandnew70x7

Existentialism On Prom Night
38 Badges
Dec 5, 2002
2.933
0
Visit site
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
Alot of this seems wrong.. sorry. (And most of it non implementable)

and the Balkans is already covered in another thread.
 

Steel

Field Marshal
56 Badges
May 4, 2001
7.689
0
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
Hey Capodistrias,

The Balkans are an interesting area, we generally discuss that in the Eastern Europe thread. About the points you raised, you will need to provide more numbers and what sources you used if we are to make use of it in the mod. Ideally provide more than one source, for example for the Far East I like to use one American source and one Japanese source - the truth is somewhere in between ;)
 

Angelos

Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι ουδὲν οἶδα.
185 Badges
Oct 18, 2001
913
85
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Empire of Sin
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Galactic Assault
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
Ok,time for some (several,actually) corrections on Capodistrias' thesis.Being greek myself,i should be considered somewhat impartial,so no offence meant;) .Let's go:
1 Albanians (Tsamides) really did participate in the italian force.They were only two battalions of them though of little org. and fighting capability,along with a number of guides and irregulars.They were only a slight minority in the actual strikeforce of the italians and did not precede them at all.
1.1 The albanian volunteer corp existed since 1940,not 1943,but was not really that important.Infact,greek volunteers(2000:( )were more than the albanians.
2.1 The attack on Yug.preceded the attack on Metaxas line.Thats why it only took them a day to reach the yugo-greek frontier via Skopje.And they entered Greece east of Florina,quite far away from Ioannina in fact,almost half way to Thessaloniki.
2.12 Turkey never threatened Germany.In fact,that would be a laugh under the circumstances.The "promise" to Greece was based on a friendship pact of 1931.
2.21 The german paras were not nearly annihilated.They had suffered tremendously though and had lost a few hundred men (according to german sources).They never embarked on such a massive action again.
2.22 Greek navy did exist after the fall of Greece but mainly torpedoing in Greece,patroling and even scouting in the Indian ocean.It acted in units though,never massively.
2.3 Northern Epirus was liberated in the first world war not the second.And it was autonomous,not independent.
2.4 German occupation existed only in Attica,major ports,several islands and 3/4 of Crete.Bulgarians occupied Thrace and the italians the rest.
3 Tito was never assisted by the Nazis.Actually they launched the "Knights Move" against him.And Mihailovic' army was never that numerous.
4 Those slav-speaking persons were Romania's claim(in the Florina region).Bulgaria's claim was purely geo-historical.The Serbs had been promised Thessaloniki by Axis prior to the April offensive.

Id est(always wanted to say that:) ).
 

Angelos

Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι ουδὲν οἶδα.
185 Badges
Oct 18, 2001
913
85
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Empire of Sin
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Galactic Assault
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
No,but friendship pacts along with german panzers do:) .
 

Dibo

Colonel
69 Badges
Feb 12, 2003
1.055
0
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Knights of Honor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Originally posted by Angelos

4 Those slav-speaking persons were Romania's claim(in the Florina region).Bulgaria's claim was purely geo-historical.The Serbs had been promised Thessaloniki by Axis prior to the April offensive.

Id est(always wanted to say that:) ).

Please stop - I know it is part of the official Greek line not to admit the presence of slavonic minorities in Northern Greece, but anyway this is not the place to post propaganda crap :(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.