Byzantium

[Wizzington]

It really just sounds like you want special powers for your pet nation, honestly. The game would not be any more or less historical for adding it, so make some gameplay arguments instead.

 

[NetherViking]

I love Roman history and like playing Byz but for what it matters I think the starting setup is fairly generous as is and that Byz rarely gets close to the 16th century without human intervention is pretty reasonable. A lot of other nations also often don't last that long.

Maybe the city of Constantinople could have a small 5% defensive buff against siege that any faction could take advantage of when holding the province but I am not sure you would want to go that route of having a unique province bonus unless you could justify it in other places. Perhaps a "peninsular fortification" buff but honestly, it doesn't matter to me that much.

 

[illathid]

I find it peculiar how many time when people ask for things to be made "historically accurate" it means a buff for a nation they play.

 

[wingzero890]

All you 'Rome fans' or 'Byzantophiles' or whatever you call yourselves I suggest you try one of the many other games of varying quality that portrays the Roman/ERE in it's era of power including but not limited to

Crusader Kings II
EU: Rome
Rome: Total War
Attila: Total War
Medieval II: Total War

You may find your fetish adequately stroked by these games.

PS: The original 1444 bookmark is called 'Rise of the Ottomans' not 'Rise of Byzantium'.

 

[net.split]

It really just sounds like you want special powers for your pet nation, honestly. The game would not be any more or less historical for adding it, so make some gameplay arguments instead.

I like this approach, so I'm going to make one by going off a previous poster's Trebizond suggestion.

It was mentioned that Trebizond survived longer thanks to inter-faith royal marriages, an option currently denied by the game.

Why not add a new idea/tradition mechanic that permits inter-faith royal marriages? Only one party would need this modifier for the option to be available (though if you wanted you could make it so that only the nation with the modifier can propose the marriage).

This may help Trebizond a little but is mostly unimportant for that reason. However, this mechanic could then be made available in the Nation Designer, permitting custom nations to make use of this with all sorts of faiths & starts around the world. Since Custom Nations are the most popular nation start, it would reach a large portion of your audience as a new option to play with.

 

[echolot]

All you 'Rome fans' or 'Byzantophiles' or whatever you call yourselves I suggest you try one of the many other games of varying quality that portrays the Roman/ERE in it's era of power including but not limited to

Crusader Kings II
EU: Rome
Rome: Total War
Attila: Total War
Medieval II: Total War

You may find your fetish adequately stroked by these games.

PS: The original 1444 bookmark is called 'Rise of the Ottomans' not 'Rise of Byzantium'.

The only thing what I hate more than silly byzantophile statements are their silly byzantophobe counterparts.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

All you 'Rome fans' or 'Byzantophiles' or whatever you call yourselves I suggest you try one of the many other games of varying quality that portrays the Roman/ERE in it's era of power including but not limited to

Crusader Kings II
EU: Rome
Rome: Total War
Attila: Total War
Medieval II: Total War

You may find your fetish adequately stroked by these games.

PS: The original 1444 bookmark is called 'Rise of the Ottomans' not 'Rise of Byzantium'.

I think you might get a cluster of disagrees for calling any of the modern Total war a games something that can satisfy anything other than a childish slaughter of 2000-3000 little animated men

 

[megaspider01]

I propose you do it this way:
*Add a level 2 fort in Constantinople that represents the Theodosian walls, a siege would require more soldiers (makes sense), the city will last a little longer (makes sense) and the Byzantine economy will be a little weaker (makes sense, sorry byzantophiles)
*Replace the -10% advisor cost, since I don't know why it's even there (feel free to explain), with +15% galley ability

 

[zsImmortal]

I propose you do it this way:
*Add a level 2 fort in Constantinople that represents the Theodosian walls, a siege would require more soldiers (makes sense), the city will last a little longer (makes sense) and the Byzantine economy will be a little weaker (makes sense, sorry byzantophiles)
*Replace the -10% advisor cost, since I don't know why it's even there (feel free to explain), with +15% galley ability

Byzantium didn't even have a navy in 1444. Kind of a weird thing to give them, despite Greek fire.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

Byzantium didn't even have a navy in 1444. Kind of a weird thing to give them, despite Greek fire.

They had two navies and they didnt like each other, its just more simple to give them their own than create a loaned ship mechanic.

 

[Scottx105]

I propose you do it this way:
*Add a level 2 fort in Constantinople that represents the Theodosian walls, a siege would require more soldiers (makes sense), the city will last a little longer (makes sense) and the Byzantine economy will be a little weaker (makes sense, sorry byzantophiles)
*Replace the -10% advisor cost, since I don't know why it's even there (feel free to explain), with +15% galley ability

Whilst having more would be nice, this would be fine.

 

[wingzero890]

The only thing what I hate more than silly byzantophile statements are their silly byzantophobe counterparts.

Thanks for showing me the light. I agree Byzantium needs a buff. I propose giving them the 'Invasion' buff like Jan Mayen gets to accurately reflect their state in 1444.

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Jan_Mayen

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

I propose you do it this way:
*Add a level 2 fort in Constantinople that represents the Theodosian walls, a siege would require more soldiers (makes sense), the city will last a little longer (makes sense) and the Byzantine economy will be a little weaker (makes sense, sorry byzantophiles)
*Replace the -10% advisor cost, since I don't know why it's even there (feel free to explain), with +15% galley ability

The advisor cost is because they employed some good advisors from all around europe, being it was a major point of trade, both of goods and ideas throughout the majority of its lifespan. Why the galley ability, they had no major naval prowess, just controll over the bosphorus.

 

[zsImmortal]

They had two navies and they didnt like each other, its just more simple to give them their own than create a loaned ship mechanic.

It would seem they indeed have some kind of navy (mea culpa), but nothing that could be taken seriously. They mostly relied on Genoese ships. As I recall though, the last time there was any significant imperial fleet was before the sack of Constantinople, which was disbanded by the Angeloi to cut costs.

 

[megaspider01]

The advisor cost is because they employed some good advisors from all around europe, being it was a major point of trade, both of goods and ideas throughout the majority of its lifespan. Why the galley ability, they had no major naval prowess, just controll over the bosphorus.

The galley ability represents the greek fire. About the advisor cost, you know how event advisors cost half as much? Wouldn't it be better to use something in that style and replace the advisor cost with something else if they were that special (just a thought, no sarcasm intended)?

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

It would seem they indeed have some kind of navy (mea culpa), but nothing that could be taken seriously. They mostly relied on Genoese ships. As I recall though, the last time there was any significant imperial fleet was before the sack of Constantinople, which was disbanded by the Angelos to cut costs.

They relied heavily on both Venice and Genoa, neither of them really wanted to work together which was why it failed for the most part, they would hire both, one or the other depending on how vast the threat they faced, it never really acheived much either, partly due to the dug in nature of the turkish since they bought passage over the bosphorus from a group of Genoan sailors.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

The galley ability represents the greek fire. About the advisor cost, you know how event advisors cost half as much? Wouldn't it be better to use something in that style and replace the advisor cost with something else if they were that special (just a thought, no sarcasm intended)?

Greek fire was quite difficult to use, the modern designs of galleys made it harder yet, it wouldnt really be anything like the significance of 15%, it wasnt really widely used for all kinds of reasons like that

 

[zsImmortal]

They relied heavily on both Venice and Genoa, neither of them really wanted to work together which was why it failed for the most part, they would hire both, one or the other depending on how vast the threat they faced, it never really acheived much either, partly due to the dug in nature of the turkish since they bought passage over the bosphorus from a group of Genoan sailors.

I was under the impression it was the Venetians that provided transport for the Turks, despite making the commitment to support the Byzantines? I may be mistaken however. Regardless, Byzantium starting with a fleet bonus (on top of a fairly large fleet to start with) seems fairly anachronistic. Maybe later in the idea tree, suggesting a surviving empire to rebuild its fleet and dominate the Mediterranean again, but to start? I wouldn't think it appropriate.

 

[Haccoude]

It had the population of other major capitals such as London, around 40k-80k pop 1450. Back then 40-80k Population was huge. Populations within cities only started to increase into the millions towards the end of the Renaissance and the start of the industrial revolution.

That's because the English and the French had a whole country to inhabit, and this was a time when urban living wasn't profitable for most people. In contrast, the Byzantines at this point were faced with the lack of territory. Doubtless a large part of Constantinople's population would have preferred to thrive on the countryside, rather than languish in their city, where they had been driven by Turkish occupation. That's what I meant by refugees essentially.

No that's because England and France weren't particularly urbanized, despite that, at this point in time, Paris absolutely dwarfed Constantinople.
If we turn our eyes to the more urbanized parts of Western Europe, i.e. Northern Italy and the Netherlands, then Amsterdam, Bruges, Ghent, Milan, Venice and Genoa were all bigger than Constantinople. That's not combined by region either, that's individually.

At the time of it's fall, three different cities in the Burgundian Netherlands each had more inhabitants than Constantinople.

 

[zamieo]

A mix of liking little underdog states, both of them having some seriously badass rulers (Skanderbeg/Edzard I) and finding them fun to play.

Ah, yeah Skanderbeg was a legitimate badass. I've never heard of Edzard I but the name alone sounds cool, haha. If you give East Frisia some unique ideas, I might give them a try. Albania is always fun, although it's a bit more difficult now that you can't simply take Umbrino and join the HRE.