Why is it called Byzantium in 1444? The Term or Name Byzantium appeared around 1557? Same in CK3 why?
- 7
- 6
- 1
Byzantium
- Thread starter BadOrc
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Because, against all historical accuracy demanded everywhere else, everyone prefers that heretical name... apparently...
- 7
- 5
- 2
- 2
- 1
Tbh i don't know either. Before 1557 country was called Rome, Roman empire and people Romans. My history teacher once tolld me and other students to avoid using the fake name ''Byzantium'' and to call them as they were called by others. Ah yeas he also called that Wolf dude who fabricated and invented the name ''Wanna be historian and liar''. Last quote wasn't meant to offend anyone.
- 6
- 6
- 1
Because it's the most recognizable name for the state, for the same reason we call the Mughals, the Mughals. If you want all the states named to what the state labeled itself, there are mods for that, I believe.
- 13
- 1
- 1
Except that, while it was still in existence, it was not called Byzantium by anybody... it was called the Eastern Roman Empire... byzantium is anachronistic.
It has nothing to do with how they called themselves.
- 6
- 5
- 3
- 1
Technically, they just called themselves the Roman Empire. Romania was also used, I think, but that complicates things for the Romania tag. Also Rhomais was used, I think.
Though medieval European sources did refer to it as the "Greek Empire", to distinguish it from the Holy Roman Empire.
- 1
???
I mean, yes, that's exactly my point. I understand that they did not use the term "Byzantium", and I offered the example of the Mughal Empire, who did not refer to themselves as such. The tag is named "Byzantium" for ease of access and recognition. There's plenty of tags who are not called what they themselves used as a name. I don't understand the problem.
- 9
For the simple reason that actually a lot of players are not that versed in history but know the term byzantium but would be confused by a roman empire in 1444.
Tbh it is a choice the devs made that can be defended.
Tbh it is a choice the devs made that can be defended.
- 5
- 4
I'ml not going to argue on how it shall be called in base game... we changed it in M&T, and that i s enough for me... i wouldn't try to force the whole community to follow that path.
You are saying that "Empire of the Romans" or whatever is how they called themselves, and you compare this case to the Mughals. What i'm arguing here is that the contemporary of the Mughals called them Mughals.... the contemporary of the Eastern Roman Empire never called them "Byzantium"... they called them "Eastern Roman Empire" or "Greek Empire" or other names involving "Rome".
"Byzantium" was not used by anyone for teh city after it was re-christianned "Constantinople", and for the city before 1555.
- 1
Players might be confused by a Roman empire in 1444, but it would probably peak their interest and they'd check it up on Wikipedia - and learn something from it. There might be an influx of players telling PDX on the forum that it's supposed to be "Byzantium!" but in my opinion, if EUIV launched with Byzantium being called "Eastern Roman Empire", I think people would get used to it fairly quickly.
- 3
- 2
- 1
byzantophiles are so concerned for the reputation and dignity of people who have been dead for hundreds of years. who cares?
- 9
- 6
- 1
And Germany calls themselves Deutschland, but no one ever complains about that. Words & language exist to serve meaning, not the other way around. Calling it Byzantium is the most effective way to communicate to most people what entity you are referring to; calling it the Roman Empire would confuse people who aren't uber-nerds because almost every single historical game/documentary/book etc that EU4 players are likely to have interacted with calls it Byzantium.
- 9
- 5
The ingame Korea is in fact not the Korea widely known to the west. The latter Korea is actually named after the Koryo dynasty that lasted from 918 to 1392. The current in game dynasty should technically be named the Joseon dynasty to be accurate. However as we all know this isn't the case. The name Korea was (most likely) chosen instead because it's much more familiar to a vast portion of the non-Korean playerbase.
Same thing goes for Byzantium. Nobody called Byzantium 'Byzantium', but it's named that way in game for the sake of clarity.
Same thing goes for Byzantium. Nobody called Byzantium 'Byzantium', but it's named that way in game for the sake of clarity.
- 13
- 3
Because to do otherwise would be confusing and unnecessarily pedantic.
Last edited:
- 5
Whilke i disagree on the choice of name, i can accept the "it would be confusing" argument. But it certainly wouldn't be pedantic, just correcting a historical misinformation... nothing pedantic about that.
- 4
- 1
- 1
Byzantine Art. Byzantine History. These are terms used by scholars of this historical entity to refer to their own disciplines. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me, and anything else is unnecessarily fussy/overly precise/pedantic.
- 5
- 1
Did History channel tell you this or did you open up a book?
- 8
- 1
- 1
This is easy to answer.
Because there can be only one Roman Empire in EU4 and it resides in Vienna.
Because there can be only one Roman Empire in EU4 and it resides in Vienna.
- 6
- 2
- 1
I would like to point out that this rebuttal consists of
"Nope, he's not a historian because I said so"
"lol AMERICANS"
Come on, the level of discourse in this forum is usually much higher. We can do better, right?
In any case, while Byzantium is certainly an anachronistic term, it's usefulness in histography is undeniable. While, yes, the Roman Empire of 1444 has a totally valid claim as the successor of the Roman Empire of antiquity, the length of survival of the Empire and the different cultural bases of the Empire of 1444 and of the empire of antiquity means that it becomes necessary to differentiate them. Claiming that "real historians" do not use the term "Byzantine" is both wrong and ignores the usefulness of the term.
Last edited:
- 11
- 2