Zandros said:true, but so did the zulus when they attacked the british
And the zulus also won some battles, initially.
Byzantium Tech
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And the zulus also won some battles, initially.
Hannibal lost against Rome.
Pyrrhus lost against Rome.
Didnt both of them have the technologial upperhand?
Pyrrhus lost against Rome.
Didnt both of them have the technologial upperhand?
er.... because it was 70,000 vs 7,000 men...?Zandros said:
So you would say that Ireland in 1400 had more technological knowledge and capacity than Byzantium?
A moot point: Western Europe and Eastern Europe both start at the same tech level at the beginning of the game - effectively, they are the same as each other, neither better or worse. It's only the centuries after game start that matter.Wretched Gnu said:
Sorry, bud when economical, technological and army superpower, which cower one third of whole continent, attack one small country with no economy, in civil war and in technology of I. W.W...Zandros said:
THAT is honorless and cowardice.
spl said:
It can be very frustrating when Paradox makes patently unhistorical decisions in designing it's games. Byzantium should be Latin. Transylvania should go back to Catholic/Reform religion to represent the Hungarians and Germans, and Romanian culture to represent the Romanian peasantry.
Trust me, I'll make both of those updates as soon as I download the game.
Alexandre
Assuming the idea behind your proposed changes is that the majority of Transylvanians (i.e., the peasantry) were Catholic Romanians, then you're wrong. From what I gather - and this is particularly evident in the game's history files - a country's religion/culture are its state religion/culture - that is, those of the ruling classes. This is certainly how I see it, anyway.Alexandre said:
I share a similar opinion: state culture and religion refers primarily to the nobility of the country, and that province culture and religion refers primarily to the peasants and burghers. Note the absence of the word "monarch" anywhere in this.mandead said:
Exactly. Thus, if we had a 1066 mod, England's state culture would be Norman, whilst most (all?) of the country would be Anglo-Saxon, &c.dharper said:
I've always viewed it this way - it seems pretty logical to me.
Think before.Fortuyn said:
I only want to show him problem in his way of thinking.
There is no honor in war, the winner writes history.
Alexandre said:
That may be fine to represent Byzantiums technological potential (though many people here disagree. I personally, am undecided)
But something just doesnt sound right about an eastern orthodox stronghold being "latin".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latins#Middle_Ages
A beta tester said eastern, that's settled
Byzantium will still have oppurtunity to westernize. But Constantinople is one province, it's rather wealthy, even a COT perhaps? As a one-province minor with one of the 10 wealthiest provinces in the game (possibly) and perhaps rather good advisors in the beginning, I can't see how they shouldn't get better tech than Serbia or Russia.
Byzantium will still have oppurtunity to westernize. But Constantinople is one province, it's rather wealthy, even a COT perhaps? As a one-province minor with one of the 10 wealthiest provinces in the game (possibly) and perhaps rather good advisors in the beginning, I can't see how they shouldn't get better tech than Serbia or Russia.
By 1399 Byzantium was in fact under Turkish sphere of influence and was by no means center of innovation any longer.
Reneissance and Age of Discovery meant that west was becoming the source of new discoveries. Had Byzantium survived I'd imagine that it's ties with Western-Europe wouldn't have been much tighter than what Ottoman Empire or Russia had later on. Byzantium would certainly have had difficulties to be able to keep pace with latins, let alone exceed them.
Reneissance and Age of Discovery meant that west was becoming the source of new discoveries. Had Byzantium survived I'd imagine that it's ties with Western-Europe wouldn't have been much tighter than what Ottoman Empire or Russia had later on. Byzantium would certainly have had difficulties to be able to keep pace with latins, let alone exceed them.
innovation is the key word here.
Yes, the renaissance started in Italy after Greek knowledge came there.. but it was because it was used, discussed, changed and improved upon... not just because a pile of books moved from place A to place B.
Whether the Byzantine empire was more conservative in their thinking than "the west" is difficult to assess, since Byzantium didn't exactly have a good track record during the time period covered by the game.
IMO, the struggle to "catch up" with the west technologically is a nice "phase 2" after weathering the Ottoman storm, and one that feels appropriate considering the last few decades/hundreds of years prior to 1399.
Yes, the renaissance started in Italy after Greek knowledge came there.. but it was because it was used, discussed, changed and improved upon... not just because a pile of books moved from place A to place B.
Whether the Byzantine empire was more conservative in their thinking than "the west" is difficult to assess, since Byzantium didn't exactly have a good track record during the time period covered by the game.
IMO, the struggle to "catch up" with the west technologically is a nice "phase 2" after weathering the Ottoman storm, and one that feels appropriate considering the last few decades/hundreds of years prior to 1399.
heh... did those "piles of books" just arrive in Italy and translate, interpret and teach themselves? Those piles of books were actually Byzantine scholars and teachers, some of the most beloved and honored intellectuals of their era.ForzaA said:
Which is precisely why it's stupid to tie tech potential to culture. They could just as easily have created the same tiers under neutral names -- "tier 1" "tier 2", etc -- which would have allowed much more accurate and flexible designations. Technologically strong non-Western powers would be put appropriately on par with technologically weak Western powers.theunlimited said:
Instead, the designers are smitten with a ridiculous cultural essentialism -- and for which most people on the boards fight tooth and nail -- thus forcing us to swallow the technological superiority of Norway over Byzantium...