Wretched Gnu said:
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Perhaps it would help if you could provide reasons you would accept for countries having a worse-than-perfect techgroup. Say, for Serbia, the Ottoman Empire or the Inca Empire. Why would these countries have a worse techgroup than Western Europe? If you can't answer that, then there is no answer you'll accept for Byzantium, so it's kind of pointless to debate it.Wretched Gnu said:
The tech groups determine how much tech research a ducat will buy. An economically distressed nation will already be constrained in its tech advancement before the tech group modifiers even kick in. If Byzantium somehow gets the money, there is no historical reason to suggest that it would not be able to get as much out of its tech investment as would most Western nations -- and certainly as compared to Ireland, etc.Plushie said:
Every single factor you mention is already modeled in the game by mechanisms other than the tech group. Bad emperors, bad military position, etc. are already taken care of by these other mechanics.Byzantine glory said:the byzantines were at that point just trying to survive let alone advance technolgy, they should have the east tech level and i love the byzantine empire but by 1400 the byzantines had almost nothing, this wasnt helped by the fact that there were about 3 good emperors during the palaeologi and that dosent include constantine who i have no idea how his governing skills were but tech at that points wasnt the byzantines strong point.
? This is like the priest insisting that the burden of proof rests on the atheist to prove God's non-existence. Isn't it sufficient to point to the fact that nobody denies: that Byzantium's capacity to learn tech was, at any period, at least as strong as the weakest Western nations (and certainly stronger than the weakest)? I'm not sure what more needs to be said...dharper said:Perhaps it would help if you could provide reasons you would accept for countries having a worse-than-perfect techgroup. Say, for Serbia, the Ottoman Empire or the Inca Empire. Why would these countries have a worse techgroup than Western Europe? If you can't answer that, then there is no answer you'll accept for Byzantium, so it's kind of pointless to debate it.
Well if the player is really so lazy as to rely on sweeping cultural stereotypes rather than his own historical knowledge as he's trying to gauge a nation's tech capacity, this could easily be addressed by adding a tiny datum to the national info screen: "tech group: 3"spl said:
Well, Inca and OE are rather obvious. I doubt event Johan could explain why Serbia is 'worse' than West. Prejudices... [kidding of course]dharper said:Perhaps it would help if you could provide reasons you would accept for countries having a worse-than-perfect techgroup. Say, for Serbia, the Ottoman Empire or the Inca Empire. Why would these countries have a worse techgroup than Western Europe? If you can't answer that, then there is no answer you'll accept for Byzantium, so it's kind of pointless to debate it.
Well, aside from the fact that tech groups also have an impact on which advisors a nation can get and which maps they have access to, you also have to consider geographic location. Byzantium has easy access to incredibly vast riches compared to anything an Irish nation can access. If Byzantium and Leinster keep their original borders for the entire game, Byzantium will be miles ahead of Leinster without even trying.Wretched Gnu said:
Alright, I'm done listening to you talk about how everybody here finds non-western nations inferior.Wretched Gnu said:
Wretched Gnu said:
Zandros said:
Tayran said:
I wouldn't call them cowards for that...Zandros said:
Zandros said:
