What Tech group will Byzantium be in? Eastern? Seems obvious but I'm not sure.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Byzantium Tech
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F(Patton)HJ said:
Not to start a Byzantine war thread, but the old Empire was a shadow of its former self in 1400. The past 200 years basically of strife including 50 year occupation of Constantinople by Catholic Crusaders during the 4th crusade and the black death in the 1300s really took its toll on the Empire.
In fact, the Crusaders took just about anything not nailed down in 1205 after they sacked the capital left it in utter economic ruin and most of the cities population had went from 90,000 to less than 30,000. The Catholic clergy were not only stealing holy relics but also acquired much of the paper books (which was pretty highly prized back then) and shipped it west.
From that they never really recovered since the Turks basically took everything else but Constantinople and King of Bulgaria was able to stay independent of the Byzantines.
Yes, but Byz was still far more advanced than semi-barbarian russians, who were still paying tribute to Horde.
For the sake of the well being of Paradox, I hope they put Byzantium higher than the "normal" eastern.
Think of the combined rage of all the byzantinophils (which is the entire forume and then some) when they start up IN and see that their beloved empire is in the same tech group as the "primitive" muscovits :rofl:
Think of the combined rage of all the byzantinophils (which is the entire forume and then some) when they start up IN and see that their beloved empire is in the same tech group as the "primitive" muscovits :rofl:
Alexander Seil said:
By 1400s "Byzantium" was just a small greek kingdom on the Bosporus , with the exception of having a large urban setting, don't see how it was more "anything" than anyone else.
They are in eastern, i suppose its because they havent made any worthwhile innovations in the last 200 years or something.
Byzantium probably belongs to the Latin techgroup simply because of the presence of Italian merchants from Genoa and Venice in Constantinople...who wielded very considerable influence.
In any case, if you start determining tech groups on the basis of "who made which innovations in the 13th and 14th centuries," you'll end up with most of Europe in the African tech group, and some places in Asia as latins
What is a LOT more relevant is how many innovations any of these nations made over the course of the game's time-frame. We have no idea what that would be for Byzantium, as it got wiped out, but because of the presence of Italians, it might as well be latin.
In any case, if you start determining tech groups on the basis of "who made which innovations in the 13th and 14th centuries," you'll end up with most of Europe in the African tech group, and some places in Asia as latins
What is a LOT more relevant is how many innovations any of these nations made over the course of the game's time-frame. We have no idea what that would be for Byzantium, as it got wiped out, but because of the presence of Italians, it might as well be latin.
ZmajOgnjeniVuk said:There. Fixed. No matter how small, it was still an empire.
As much as the Holy Roman Empire was Roman.... Or an Empire
imo they shouldn't be in western tech group tech, since byzantium was clearly south-eastern european at the time. On the other hand it should be more advanced than any other nation near it, as it's a fact that noone can deny.
Or Holy =)vertinox said:As much as the Holy Roman Empire was Roman.... Or an Empire
Actually, Ragusa was more advanced.mythos said:
Serbia caught up and overreached Byzantium somewhere in 1410's.Of course it wasn't - Romans lived in Byzantium, The Empire.vertinox said:As much as the Holy Roman Empire was Roman.... Or an Empire
Alexander Seil said:
those merchants weren't there to help or improve byzantium though, they were there to dominate the trade that came through the city. They were there to improve venice and Genoa by taking the wealth from the city. Regardless Byzantium is in the eastern tech group and imo that is where it should stay, unless of course it has a revival and meets the requirements for the westernisation decision.
I don't know why people keep bringing up Byzantium's diminished domain in 1400 -- it has nothing to do with what their tech knowledge and capability should be.
It was Byzantium that re-introduced Greek learning and science to the world -- including the Italian states. Byzantium's primary export to the West was the academic and scientific knowledge they had lost over the preceding centuries.
Byzantium should be in the Latin group, no question.
It was Byzantium that re-introduced Greek learning and science to the world -- including the Italian states. Byzantium's primary export to the West was the academic and scientific knowledge they had lost over the preceding centuries.
Byzantium should be in the Latin group, no question.
I agree. From what I've read and heard, the Italian Renaissance was in no small part due to Byzantine scholars that had fled to Italy when the Ottomans wiped out the Byzantine Empire.
Imo, Bizantium should have latin tech group with orthodox graphics. But who will expalin me why Poland, Lithuania and Mazovia have orthodox tech, while it was under obvious influence of west Europe(catholic faith). I could understand that, if it changed after something like "Sarmatism event" in EU2 with AGCEEP mod. I feel so ignored :wacko: .
:wacko: .