Byzantium OPM-strategy?

[Tazzoz21]

Started a Byz game (ironman, no CoC, patch 1.23), just to get a feel for the recommended strats (mil.acc. Venice, sent army to Negroponte, trap Otto army with fleet on Negroponte in case of war, ally as much as you can).

So, Serbia and Genoa rivaled me, I managed to ally Hungary, Karaman and Albania. Ottos still DOW-ed me around 1450. Had not yet built up a strong enough fleet, so the trapping thing was an utter disaster. But Hungary came down strong and managed to wipe out half of the Ottoman army and occupied Thessalonika. So after a year the warscore was still around 0%. I then had a thought: what if I scaled back to being a OPM?

So, fortunately the Otts would take Athens and Achaia for a truce in 1450. I then sold the Morea to Venice, so I concentrated on building up Constantinople. Did the Trade eddict, disbanded my army, mothballed my fleet while building new galleys. Money started to "pour in" (some 2 a month) and I managed to build a market and church. Money went to 3 - 3,5 a month and I spent it as much as possible on my navy. My grand strategy was to built up a max. limit fleet, with galleys and heavy ships, so in the event of a war with the Ottomans (or a Ottoman war that I wasn't part of) I could blockade the straits and then pick up some land.

In the meantime, my dynasty was pretty safe (had so-so heirs and a short regency) and I was still allied to Hungary and Albania. Had ditched Karaman in the meantime, because they were warned by the Ottos. Then I saw around 1460 that Venice had started a Trade League. I managed to join that league, but for some vague reason I was kicked out after a year. Now that did correspond with the regency, but I thought it was weird. I turned on all messages, but after I managed to get back in, I still got kicked out after another year with no messages... bug? I also choose naval ideas for the admiral bonus (nr. 1) and the 25%+ galley power (nr. 2).

Anyway, Ottos had the Conquer Levant mission, so they were focused on the Mamluks who were creeping up north, but around 1468 they fabricated a claim on Constantinople. I frantically tried to get back in the venetian Trade league, but alas. I unmothballed my fleet (some 3 heavies and 8 galleys), because the storm was brewing. In 1469 the Ottos DOWed and with a 35-size fleet sweeped the Straits... Constantinople was quickly occupied (cos no army), but Hungary put their armies where their mouth was and kept the Ottos busy. They almost managed to liberate Constantinople in time, for me to raise there a mercenary army (cos Venice, Mamluks, Hungary and Aragon gave me subsidies for a whopping total of 9 ducs a month and I had amassed almost 450 ducs during the war), but the clock ticked away and in the end it was Game Over in october 1470.

If Hungary had managed to liberate Constantinople and I was able to raise my merc-army, I was very curious to see if I would be able to broker a White Peace. Alas. It didn't also help that (looking at it in macro way) that the Ottos had no big wars in the 1450-1468 period. Not one (besides a minor one with Wallachia).

Soooooo... in a nutshell: 1) Regular precautionary measures (allies and such) 2) Try to survive the inevatible first war and peace out, even by giving away land, as soon as possible. 3) Sell remaining land to Venice. 4) Disband army 5) Upgrade navy while mothballed 6) Trade edict/built market/church 7) Join Venetian (or Genoan) Trade League when possible

any ideas how in my next run I could optimize this Byz-OPM tactic?

edit: why not immediatelly sell my provinces? Because I want a war, so I can hopefully peace out favorably (in this case 1-2 provinces) and then enjoy a nine year truce.

and why no army? Because I want to amass as much money as possible, so in case of war I can recruit mercs.

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posted this on Reddit too btw

 

[makaramus]

instead of wall of text can you send wall of a single picture so we can judge much easier Maybe? Easier for both sides

Also dont ask access to venice... simple declare war on rhodos (or venice if you think trade cities cant reach you) and take negra to yourself. make athens sub (thing that paying more money as vassal but not joining wars) so they wont siege athens and you can trap them in that island since athens doesnt belong to them.

 

[Tazzoz21]

instead of wall of text can you send wall of a single picture so we can judge much easier Maybe? Easier for both sides

Also dont ask access to venice... simple declare war on rhodos (or venice if you think trade cities cant reach you) and take negra to yourself. make athens sub (thing that paying more money as vassal but not joining wars) so they wont siege athens and you can trap them in that island since athens doesnt belong to them.

haha, I totally forgot to make screenshots and stuff, I was fully focused on my new found "wisdom".

in regard to the regular strat... it feels a bit.... cheesy I guess, so I was/am happy that I maybe found a more "historical" way of solving the Byzantine opening problem. I'll do some non-ironman game testing, see what happens. But thanks anyway for clarifying. And other tips are also welcome.

 

[airpirate]

If you want to be an OPM, the best thing to do would be release Morea as a vassal right away and then join Venice's trade league assuming they didn't rival you. I'm not sure why you'd go that route though. The strat you described seems quite slow, and I'm not confident you can let the Ottomans grow for too long before they become unstoppable. Besides, the first war is usually winnable with the allies you have, though I think it's best to keep all your allies on the European side of the straits. Allying with Hungary, Wallachia, and Albania (usually doable if Hungary doesn't rival you, in which case you should just restart) has been enough for me to beat the Ottomans even without cheesy strait blocking in Nergoponte.

The strat for my successful Byzantine runs have been as follows (the first war is won by around 1450 with minimal loans taken and maxed or almost maxed out war score):

1) Restart until Hungary has rivaled the Ottomans and not you.
2)On day 1, queue up infantry to get up to force limit, start building a few galleys. Destroy the fort in Morea, you can't afford it and it doesn't do much. Use estate interactions to get yourself a general and extra money from the merchants. Cut army maintenance to zero and stick your army in Morea. You should be making around 2 ducats a month. All these steps are pretty essential. You need to get a big navy ASAP so you need to maximize income.
2) Not essential (you just have to avoid getting declared on for an extra year or two), but if you can get a diplo rep advisor, get one. Wait until just before the Hungarians are willing to ally you before hiring to save money.
3) Sell your light ships to Hungary, ally the nations I mentioned before ASAP. Use the money for more galleys or heavies if you have the money. If the strategy fails, it fails here because the Ottomans attack you before you can get big allies, or Hungary fills all their diplo slots, or Hungary gets PU'd by Austria.
4) Wait for the Ottomans to attack. They'll probably attack you before you can convince all your allies to join an offensive war. Spend this time building up your navy as much as possible, replacing cogs with more galleys and heavies if you have the time. You can mothball your fleet here if you really need money, but that's risky because you want your fleet to start picking off Ottoman ships as soon as the war starts.
5) If you get to this point it's just a matter of executing the war properly. Once the war starts, get an admiral, pick off stray Ottoman fleets while your navy in port most of the time, keep your army close to your allies. If you micro your fleet properly you should be able to get navy superiority. If you can cheese the Ottomans into being strait blocked great, but it isn't essential. Hungary and Albania have insane generals, so as long as you watch out for terrain you can usually beat Ottoman armies.
6) Peace out, take all the land you can, don't give any to Hungary. I've found you can usually take the province Hungary wants without Hungary getting mad enough to break their alliance, but even if they leave you're big enough that you can ally Poland or Austria so Hungary is no longer an essential ally.

Also occasionally the Ottomans will go for Albania first, in which case it should basically be a free start because Albania usually has big allies that destroy the Ottomans. You just need to time your attack properly so you can get max warscore without actually fighting.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

Ottos still DOW-ed me around 1450. Had not yet built up a strong enough fleet, so the trapping thing was an utter disaster.

You need 4 heavies for strait blocking, so you should be good to go in 1447

Galley spam doesn't work, Ottos outspam you

When you have no sailors due to reinforcements, lowering development can give you an extra ~800

 

[Tazzoz21]

Started new game, managed to survive until 1497. I deserve a medal.

Ottos DOW me within 6 months and after getting whooped, I managed to salvage Constantinople. Entered Trade League with Venice, Hungary/Mamluks would't ally me. Ottos left me at peace, while eating Lithuania. No war with Mamluks, Hungary or Venice... So, I did manage to ally Austria around 1490, but they attacked Venice and the Ottos pounced just as the war ended. Austria dishonored the alliance and I was done.

I felt like Rick Grimes in that military truck in the beginning of Season 1. Glenn didn't show up tho.

On for another run. Ottos gotta go for a Balkan war one day...