Byzantium opening moves

[elglanto]

Hello there,

Since I screwed up my previous Byzantium Iron Man game due to a very poor navy coordination against the Ottos, I am going to start a new one and I am thinking about opening moves. First, like I guess most people, I improve relation with Austria until I can ally them. I also ally Bosnia and put my troops on their land and wait until they attack Serbia or that Serbia attack them so I can vassalize Serbia. While doing that, I fabricate claim on Burgas and Silistria so I can get them as well during the first war against the Ottos by DoW them for one of those two. However, I would like to try something different during this first war with the Ottos. So, I wait until they go at war against Candar or some other minors and then DoW them and block he pass with galleys but instead of going to occupy their provinces, I go to Crimea which is almost always their ally, occupy them until I can vassalize them and then finish the war sith the Ottos and take my cores back plus Burgas and Silistria. I don't think that is a bad plan since Georgia is not going to give land acces to the Otto and that would allow me to easily start getting land on that side with the Golden Horde and Cricassia.
At that stage, Crimea is not big enough to be a big threat alone. Plus, by asking Serbia to siege theirs provinces, I should have enough troops to fine fine. As anyone tried that in 1.8 and was it worth it?

Another way to go there quickly would be to DoW Circassia and take the stab hit but I don't think that is worth it.

 

[hajutze]

Pretty straightforward - ally whatever you can so they don't DoW you right after Albania.

Start building galleys until you make 24-25. Wait for them to attack something in Anatolya -> DoW -> you dont need allies, just stay at the bosphorus they wont come with their navy. Occupy the Balkans, after 5 years this should give you ~65 WS. Take your cores + 2 bulgarian provinces to connect to Constantinopole.

In my last run I kept it like that for 20 years until they got wrecked by rebels (Bulgaria released, Albania released got Sugla and Edirne after the war). Right after the war I DoWed them again (stab hit but meh I was at -2 because of events anyway) and forced them to release everything I could, they were left with 4 provinces after that

 

[elglanto]

Thanks. I was actually more asking about the Crimea vassalization during the first war with the Ottos.

 

[hajutze]

This is an end game suicide unless you get a high trust with the Russians.

 

[StatikShocker]

That's about what I did. vassalized crimea a bit later though. Russia WILL rival you pretty soon after you conquer greece, and they suck anyway.

allies never helped me, I had to beat ottos on my own. especially since blockades don't work in this patch, the ottos can sustain 40k in just anatolia with 20 war exhaustion. ugh.

ottomans never broke, and the more I took from them the more they pushed into iraq and persia. for a long time I was only displacing them. in fact at the conclusion of my first war, they declared war on mamluks the next day! at 20 war exhaustion!

new provinces+too much money = OP ottomans. but I have succeeded first try so... there's that.

 

[elglanto]

Ok, I understand your point. However, on one side, I was planning to get those lands at one point. I know that in my last game in 1.7, Russia rivaled me but it was already too late as I was able to fight back. I guess I am hopping the same but that might not be very wise. My idea is to conquer a lot on that side so they won't be powerful enough to be a threat. Thus, I would quickly have three spots to DoW in the first 50 years. As always, Anatolia and Mamluk but east of Black sea as well.

Edit: Thanks StatikShocker.

 

[tgungamer]

I think it could be worth a try. Maybe try to get in good with Poland/Lith. too. They would probably help with both Crimea and Russia if needed.

 

[StatikShocker]

poland formed commonwealth and backstabbed me and allied france.
I made them pay.

 

[elglanto]

Thanks for advices. In the end, the Ottos did not ally Crimea before my first war with them however, Savoy took Liguria. Thus, Genoa was removed from the HRE which gave me the opportunity to vassalize them. So I will feed them the part I was planning to feed to Crimea.

 

[Cryostorm15]

My strategy revolves around rebels but requires a bit of luck but no alliances.
1: Build galleys until around 24-26, sometimes you can reach thirty .
2: Wait until the Ottomans are fighting to the east and declare war for Edirne.
3: Have your fleet attempt to wipe out the enemy naval power.
4: Set Athens to support and set objectives to all European provinces except Edirne while you siege Bulgaria (go for the province the Ottomans are trying to convert, if Edirne place only one unit to keep it from progressing).
5: By this time the enemy navy is wiped out, start to blocked as much of the Ottomans as possible.
6: Rack up war exhaustion and let the Greek patriots rise from Edirne which will eventually let it flip to you along with Suglia and Sinope (if he took Candar) while Bulgarian rebels remove Bulgaria.
7: Peace out after war goal reaches maximum (25 warscore since the rebels took Edirne for you which is more than the Ottomans will get more occupying Suglia and Sinope) for all European provinces still in possession, cancelling troubling alliances (Tunis), and returning cores to other beyliks.
8: Congrats Ottomans are out of Europe and if you are lucky will be demolished by their enemies to the east.

Optional: do not go past Admin 4, Dip 3, and Mil 5 and westernize as early as possible, I waited a little longer and was able to finish by 1502, just have an strong ally.

 

[Pilot00]

Havent played the game since wealth of nations but I am planning a return now. So as far as I understand it, it is easier on the opening stages with the Byzies now, but a bit more difficult to expand later, what with the vassal annex and AE changes and all?

 

[ktk1212]

It's incredibly easy to expand with Byzies. With Holy War, you can just take whatever you want. Only Europe will get upset at you if you take Catholic provinces. So basically, just war a European country once every 20-30 years, take some land, and just expand into Egypt and Persia in the meantime. Everyone down there hates each other so they don't care when you annex their rivals.

 

[Clownie]

in fact at the conclusion of my first war, they declared war on mamluks the next day! at 20 war exhaustion!

Losing a war reduces WE proportional to WS cost of peace deal. So they were probably at no WE.

 

[Shard]

Play as Venice, take Albainia, then take Serbia, Bosia, then vasselize byz, then feed them their land back. Then intergrate them. Then culture convert to greek, then change religoin to othodox, then form byz empire.

 

[zamieo]

I got Austria and, I believe, Venice to ally me. Made the start much easier. I actually got the Palaiologos to end up as the ruling dynasty in Austria really early in the game, somehow. And ironically, my own Byzantine Empire ended up with the Habsburg dynasty ruling stuff (and Austria went back to being Habsburg, thanks to myself).

 

[elglanto]

Little update. In the end, feeding Crimea to Genoa wasn't such a great move due to the rebels and I had an hard time taking care of mines and them so once or twice, rebels got their provinces and gave them back to Crimea...

Now, here is my status:
http://i.imgur.com/GyA9GNy.jpg
Genoa is almost annexed (1% to go) and Hejaz is my new vassal and I will feed him all Arabia and maybe a bit of the Timurids before annexing them.

Next move is to try to get some PU's... I have to RM Muscovy and since I am allied with Commonwealth, I might be able to go at war against them and lower their prestige... maybe... I wanted to RM France but they chose me as Rival after a stupid move of mine... Idealy, I want to backstab Austria at tome point but I need strong allies for that...

For the Ideas, I went Diplomatic, Religious (just until the missionary strength improvement), Humanity and I plan to go for Influence to get a 6th diplo slot.

 

[Jack45]

In my Byzantium game it is only around 1500 and I like to expand slowly. However I've got to the point where Ottos are no longer a challenge. I'm allied with Hungary Poland Bosnia and Serbia However I had great luck, with Mamluks stackwiping the Ottoman navy around 1450, so I could occupy the bospherous with 8 ships to stop Ottoman armies crossing never had negative cashflow during that war.

 

[aragonFTW]

Russia's ridiculous repeatable mission to subjugate Crimea is not worth the hassle of taking Crimea as Byz. Just get them to give you gold, release any hordes or Theodoro, and break the alliance with ottos. There are so many better places to expand, including into Lithuania and Persia where you have a better chance of eventually taking on Russia if muscovy breaks out.

 

[StatikShocker]

Russia's ridiculous repeatable mission to subjugate Crimea is not worth the hassle of taking Crimea as Byz. Just get them to give you gold, release any hordes or Theodoro, and break the alliance with ottos. There are so many better places to expand, including into Lithuania and Persia where you have a better chance of eventually taking on Russia if muscovy breaks out.

But guys, Russia is awful. If you put two stacks of 40 in crimea they can do nothing about it. greece+anatolia is more than enough manpower to murder russia whenever.

If russia declares war on you, you are doing something very wrong.

 

[Pilot00]

I just realised that you now lose a handful of cores from the game start....I wonder what is going on in the developers minds....