Byzantium eu IV

[unmerged(80402)]

I played only as ERE from 'In Nomine'.
And it was so great mostly by small possibility of success.
I tried many times before finally could survive and eventually beat Ottomans.
And of course I'll play as ERE in EUIV. Constantinople will not be Istanbul! There will not be any minarets on Sophia!

I think 1444 start not worse then 1399. Byzantium will have Achea (so 3 provinces from start), Constantinople is one of the greatest trade nodes in world (as it seems from some screenshots). So we have some land (and some manpower) and some gold.
I have one question - if we start in november 1444 in EU3 we will see that Ottomans are in war with Serbia and Albania (which fights its own war). Will this war be in EUIV?

And hungary, even thou they lost, the war was not ended officialy, as there was no peace agreement.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

It should be possible. But that won't be simple.

Huh. I will call you dot.

So dot, if you compare those areas, it is obvious that ottoman could not lose to byzantines, and byzantines had no place to expand anyway. They would propably not even stand a chance against the knights - because order of the knights of st. john, was militarised country, while byzantines were just remanents of what was called to be empire, so they were normal country, which in addition could not turn so easily in such a militarized state as knights were. I do not say that knights would be able to conquer them, but certainly they could easily defend themselves.

Which is why imo, all orders should have plus to force limit, manpower and discipline.

 

[Thandros]

no, they held the tiny part with red circle there. it was not an obstacle or anything. in eu terms, it was so small that it wouldnt even take place in the game. but has symbolic meanings

No they held the Whole city. The red circle was the Whole city in those days it's gotten bigger since. As for holding land out side it I don't know.

 

[...............]

So dot, if you compare those areas, it is obvious that ottoman could not lose to byzantines, and byzantines had no place to expand anyway. They would propably not even stand a chance against the knights - because order of the knights of st. john, was militarised country, while byzantines were just remanents of what was called to be empire, so they were normal country, which in addition could not turn so easily in such a militarized state as knights were. I do not say that knights would be able to conquer them, but certainly they could easily defend themselves.

Which is why imo, all orders should have plus to force limit, manpower and discipline.

The western European idea of the Crusades came in response to the deterioration of the Byzantine Empire caused by a new wave of Turkish Muslim attacks. The Byzantine emperors in the east, now threatened by the Seljuks, sent emissaries to the papacy asking for aid in their struggles with the Seljuk Turks. In 1074, Emperor Michael VII sent a request for aid to Pope Gregory VII, but although Gregory appears to have considered leading an expedition to aid Michael, nothing reached the planning stage. In 1095 Emperor Alexios I Komnenos asked Pope Urban II for help against the Turks.

The Byzantine Empire survive against the Mongols, the Muslims, Seljuks and the Ottomans a long time because of western help and activity. For example Alexius I appealed to the West for help in recovering Asia Minor. But this time (1444) the silly Grecian ( Balkan states) even were estrangedin and the Orthodox Church was against church unity and don't accept Roman Catholic Church's help. The Byzantine Empire die out . Europe is a continent which is very estrangedin but when the going gets tough they can pool one's strengths. Yes, there are disputes the crusader plunder Constantinople and the crusader and Alexios I had other interests. Alexios I want to to recapture his land from the Muslim and the crusades want to capture the holy sites. That split the the Catholic and the Orthodox Church until today but like in the Siege of Vienna they can pool our strengths against ottomans. The western world could have prevented the Christian Balkans as being terrorized by the Turks and splits up etc. (Bosnia, Serbia)

Although the Byzantine Empire for some time did not play a significant role among the European powers, Constantinople had but a still high symbolic value in Christian self-understanding. The victory of the young, dynamic and Islamic Ottoman Empire, triggered a polyphonic debate in Europe, which affected not least his own, Christian self-understanding. So the humanist Nicholas of Cusa wrote directly under the impact of the fall of the city of his work, "De Pace Fidei" ("About the faith Peace"), in which he strongly for an understanding between the religions in general, but in particular between Christianity and Islam, makes. At the same time there were growing in Europe votes that considered "the Turks" as a punishment from God for his own sins. [14] [15] The Greeks had this punishment by their schism, that the retention of the Orthodox faith and the rejection of the Catholic, on accommodated. Against such a punishment from God, but we should not force of arms, but one must overcome one's own sin and seek an orthodox life. These discussions reflect the situation of the European societies. More and more people of the eternal wars and are squabbling princes (the Hundred Years War had ended just a few years earlier) tired. At the same time the church was often as deeply corrupt and rotten with sin. The medieval model of christianitas, the idea that all Christian powers should stand together to conquer the Holy Lands and the spread of the Christian faith, were now so new concepts of communication with "the other", but also the inner self-renewal asserted.

Nevertheless, the case of Constantinople suggested but also to new crusade plans. So Pope Nicholas V called several times on the common fight against the Turks. The imperial advisor Ennea Silvio Piccolomini (later Pope Pius II called the Estates 1454/1455 to three so-called Turkish Empire days of Regensburg, Frankfurt and in the Wiener Neustadt, in order to win the war against the Turks. [16] In Lille Burgundy organized Philip the Good 1454 the so-called pheasant party in which he vowed along with many other knights and nobles take an oath to Türkenzug. [17] won Although the siege of Belgrade was in 1456 by inflowing the crusade calling gefolgten farmers further military action against the Ottomans arose but not after all the oaths and inflammatory speeches.

I know this is bad English (Google translator) but I don't want to translate this correct by my own. This is a good text and for clearer understanding what I mean and think about. It would be great if this concept would be in the game.

 

[Tufto]

View attachment 69078
no, they held the tiny part with red circle there. it was not an obstacle or anything. in eu terms, it was so small that it wouldnt even take place in the game. but has symbolic meanings

That is the whole of Constantinople. It is a city by the Golden Horn, at the entrance to the Bosphorus. The city has nowadays expanded beyond its frontiers, and even then I think there were a few suburbs outside it, but the actual city itself is the little red circle.

Besides, the Greeks did hold a little land outside the city. It was Mehmets assault on the Greek farmers which technically began the hostilities in 1453, IIRC.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

We have a topic about that every week.
In game terms Byzantium, have a situation very similar to the one in a date like 1399. So I think that for a player everything is doable, however i hope for the Ottomans, i want an AI that build a serious Ottoman Empire.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

yeah the byzantines were done for, in terms of a military all they had was maybe a series of nobles retinues, mercenaries. Id imagine in morea they'd have a very small field army(a couple thousand at best). It should be incredibly difficult to survive. But that makes somehow achieveing a win soooooooooo much more satisfying. i hope that the AI cant into space with byzantium tho i want that to be the ottomans if the player doesnt interfere. Realistically the only way they could survive is a conversion to catholicism and a new better led crusade. That or an ottoman succesion crisis...........i wonder if the ottomans will have a DHE on that

Also yeah the knights orders should have a built in discipline and force limit increase.

All in all when i start with the byzzies i'll probably start whenever konstantine takes the throne(1447 i think), he wasnt an idiot and id like to see him not be konstantine the last

 

[EU3NOOB]

Well from what I can tell in EU3 5.2 the Ottomans do much better... Ah reckon that the Ottomans will do well in EU4.

 

[Deaghaidh]

Well from what I can tell in EU3 5.2 the Ottomans do much better... Ah reckon that the Ottomans will do well in EU4.

Someone will quickly figure out a tactic/exploit to easily curbstomp them. Then a subsequent patch will address it, and a new one will be figured out. It's the nature of things.

 

[Revshawn]

yeah the byzantines were done for, in terms of a military all they had was maybe a series of nobles retinues, mercenaries. Id imagine in morea they'd have a very small field army(a couple thousand at best). It should be incredibly difficult to survive. But that makes somehow achieveing a win soooooooooo much more satisfying. i hope that the AI cant into space with byzantium tho i want that to be the ottomans if the player doesnt interfere. Realistically the only way they could survive is a conversion to catholicism and a new better led crusade. That or an ottoman succesion crisis...........i wonder if the ottomans will have a DHE on that

Also yeah the knights orders should have a built in discipline and force limit increase.

All in all when i start with the byzzies i'll probably start whenever konstantine takes the throne(1447 i think), he wasnt an idiot and id like to see him not be konstantine the last

I just hope all of the smaller counties near Morea isn't LOLGuaranteed by every stinkin Kingdom in the world. That was that sunk a lot of eager Byz-players in EU3. You simply couldn't attack any minors without having France, Castille, ect. ect. suddenly having an interest in the East Roman Empire reclaiming one of its former provinces. If a Byz player could reclaim some of its counties in quick successive wars, you could have a little bit of an easier time trying to reclaim Greece.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

I just hope all of the smaller counties near Morea isn't LOLGuaranteed by every stinkin Kingdom in the world. That was that sunk a lot of eager Byz-players in EU3. You simply couldn't attack any minors without having France, Castille, ect. ect. suddenly having an interest in the East Roman Empire reclaiming one of its former provinces. If a Byz player could reclaim some of its counties in quick successive wars, you could have a little bit of an easier time trying to reclaim Greece.

yeah that sucked seeing everyone guarntee them. Honestly i hope they redo guarntees, why would castille or england help achaea? Especially when castille is finishing up granada and england is at war with france. Suddenly 15k england troops are in greece instead of aquitania.......

Venice and naples makes sense but usually i just wait for austria to inevitably DoW Venice then its easy to take achaea and even athens/naxos/crete with your troops or spies.

 

[james24eagle]

Seiged not Seized

 

[Dafool]

Seiged not Seized

Wouldn't that actually be sieged? Or better yet besieged?