Byzantium eu IV

[DantesRevenge]

As I saw Ottoman Empire will be stronger now cause of changing the starting date. Nice improvement since Ottomans was a threat for Europe for a long time.

SO! What with Byzantium?

I think that that empire is very interesting to play for a lot of reasons
a) It was the main holy enemy of Ottomans until they captured the capital. The city which they made capital after they conquered it. The conqueror himself thought he was making another roman empire.
b) It was the empire which had under protection orthodox population since russia wasnt even formed to do that.
c) It had great history and was a fortress of Europe. After the fall of Constantinople, Ottomans had a further expansion and siezed even Wienna.

To prevent making the country unplayable (I am almost certain Ottomanss will have "Take Holy City" as their quest i believe a try to make alliances with west would be a good balance improvement.

Byzantium had a little support from rest european countries because of different faith. Some emperors wanted to change the relations with western countries with the reunion of churches (and accepting the rule of pope). There were fanctions amongst the church where some wanted the reunion and most didnt want that. So empire had little help since this reunion never happened. If this game can have other historical endings, it would be nice to give an event with that question:

Support reunion of church so a)patriarch of constaninople dissapears, b) thrace becomes catholic (or not), c) empire changes to catholic, d) raise relations with protector of catholic faith and papal state (or even auto-alliance with these countries), e) stability hit f) legitimacy falls dramatically.

Decline reunion of church so a) More prestige, b) missionary chance raises c) tolerance to non-orthodox smaller.

So supporting the first desicion will make empire tremble but will give the alliances that needed to prevent an immediate war for capturing Constantinople. If the player declines he will have some benefits but they will not helping facing the Ottoman army.

This desicion would be the desicion which byzantines didnt take. Some players will choose that or other hardcore players would like to manage muslim threat with their own orthodox power.

Of course it can be possible to restore Patriarch and make empire again orthodox (against the "traitors" of faith) after facing Ottomans but it will give a lot of stability hit and make enemies from strong west.

So thats it. My point is that Byzantium will be out of game after 1-2 years from game start so I want to see something to help that state in new game.

 

[Alley]

As I saw Ottoman Empire will be stronger now cause of changing the starting date. Nice improvement since Ottomans was a threat for Europe for a long time.

SO! What with Byzantium?

I think that that empire is very interesting to play for a lot of reasons
a) It was the main holy enemy of Ottomans until they captured the capital. The city which they made capital after they conquered it. The conqueror himself thought he was making another roman empire.
b) It was the empire which had under protection orthodox population since russia wasnt even formed to do that.
c) It had great history and was a fortress of Europe. After the fall of Constantinople, Ottomans had a further expansion and siezed even Wienna.

To prevent making the country unplayable (I am almost certain Ottomanss will have "Take Holy City" as their quest i believe a try to make alliances with west would be a good balance improvement.

Byzantium had a little support from rest european countries because of different faith. Some emperors wanted to change the relations with western countries with the reunion of churches (and accepting the rule of pope). There were fanctions amongst the church where some wanted the reunion and most didnt want that. So empire had little help since this reunion never happened. If this game can have other historical endings, it would be nice to give an event with that question:

Support reunion of church so a)patriarch of constaninople dissapears, b) thrace becomes catholic (or not), c) empire changes to catholic, d) raise relations with protector of catholic faith and papal state (or even auto-alliance with these countries), e) stability hit f) legitimacy falls dramatically.

Decline reunion of church so a) More prestige, b) missionary chance raises c) tolerance to non-orthodox smaller.

So supporting the first desicion will make empire tremble but will give the alliances that needed to prevent an immediate war for capturing Constantinople. If the player declines he will have some benefits but they will not helping facing the Ottoman army.

This desicion would be the desicion which byzantines didnt take. Some players will choose that or other hardcore players would like to manage muslim threat with their own orthodox power.

Of course it can be possible to restore Patriarch and make empire again orthodox (against the "traitors" of faith) after facing Ottomans but it will give a lot of stability hit and make enemies from strong west.

So thats it. My point is that Byzantium will be out of game after 1-2 years from game start so I want to see something to help that state in new game.

Consider the timeframe here. We're in a time-period a lot further along than in EU3 (1444). So I'd play the Ottomans instead of Byzantium. You don't have much more than a few decades where people would even remember Byzantium, which it wasn't even called at the time. (OK I'm exagerating a little)

 

[MilosM]

As much as I love Byzantium I think they should not get any help, actually they should get all the penalties that devs can think of.

 

[DantesRevenge]

@ Alley

I like you want to call Byzantium "Eastern Roman Empire". Its more accurate after all. And I wouldnt take Ottomans. I would take the state which was far too near to an enemy with great army and strong will to conquer everything.

In 1444 Ottomans are stronger with more army and more appetite to conquer Constantinople. In 1444 you have only 7 years before city is lost, not 54. So, I want to take Eastern Roman Empire, save them and prevent Ottoman expansion to Balkans. Making a country which will change from a state of dark ages to a modern state would be hard but nice. Its honourable goal and hard to get it.

Last country I played was Ottomans and I enjoyed a lot conquering balkans and trying to conquer Wienna. Now I want to hold ottomans back in eu4

 

[Thracian]

actually byzantians had only a very tiny part of constantinople in 1444. the city was alredy in ottoman control. it was rather prestigious to conquer the last town there.
in regard to this fact, byzantine existence should be only token.

 

[DantesRevenge]

actually byzantians had only a very tiny part of constantinople in 1444. the city was alredy in ottoman control. it was rather prestigious to conquer the last town there.
in regard to this fact, byzantine existence should be only token.

Byzantines had also resisted a lot in the siege. Like having fort 3 or even fort 4 at 1453.

 

[Deaghaidh]

Playing the Byzzies was great fun in EU3, precisely because they were so heavily outmatched. It'll be much harder I'm sure, but withing a few days of releas I'm sure we'll be seeing AARs of people smashing the Ottomans and restoring the Roman Empire. It's just an irresistable challenge.

 

[Jia Xu]

Byzantium in EU4 will probably be much harder than Byzantium in EU3. Remember, the 1399 start throws you a few bones. The Turks start at war with Timur himself who is a 6/6/6/1 general and typically starts the game by charging into Ottoman territory at the head of a 25K stack. EU4 starts in 1444 where the Turks are much stronger and don't have any Altaic super power harassing them.

Without the most extreme player intervention, I don't see Byzantium surviving a war with the Ottomans after the first attack. Fighting the Ottomans as Byzantium in EU4 will probably be a similar experience to attempting to fight the Germans as Austria in HOI3.

 

[Tufto]

actually byzantians had only a very tiny part of constantinople in 1444. the city was alredy in ottoman control. it was rather prestigious to conquer the last town there.
in regard to this fact, byzantine existence should be only token.

They held the whole of Constantinople, and it was a real thorn in the Ottoman side- they called it the "bone in the throat of Allah", if I recall correctly. They also held a little farmland in Thrace, and the whole of the Morea.

But, yes, it should have a fairly token existence, as there was little they could've done without another large scale Western intervention, which was very unlikely after the very date which the game starts upon.

Byzantines had also resisted a lot in the siege. Like having fort 3 or even fort 4 at 1453.

Hmm... Well, the walls were outdated, so maybe 2 would be a better level. The walls themselves actually proved very susceptible to bombardment from the Ottoman guns, and the rapid repairs using less solid materials on the walls had a better effect. And their great resistance was largely on account of the Venetian and Genoan naval intervention. But I agree that taking the city should be harder for the Ottomans. They nearly lost the siege, after all; if the final assault had failed, which was a definite possibility, they probably would've broken off the siege.

But it should be extremely hard for the player to prosper as Byzantium. Even if the Ottomans had lost the siege, they would have been back in a few years and won. The Romans were on their last legs in 1444, definitely, and when there's no human intervention they should go every time in EU4, and it should be an immense challenge for the player.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

im a byzantiophile and i hope the AI byzzies die by 1453 everytime. It should be very very difficult. Im wondering what the byzzies will get from paradox they are in tier 3. Really the only early strat i can think of it somehow getting cascading alliances to get the entirety of europe to help byzantium. i was hoping that they'd move the start up before the battle of varna. kind of like in CK2 with stanford bridge and such.

 

[Werson]

I hope the Byzantines crash and burn in every single game I play, and I also hope that they lose all their cores in Greece. I only say Greece because I hope they don't start with cores all over Sunni Turkish Ottoman territory, that was retarded in EU3 as they had lost all that land many centuries ago.

 

[Steelers1990]

I love playing the BYZ but I think that in EU4 they should be set up to fail every time. If you want to play them, then play a mod or CK2. In the time frame of EU4 they are suppose to fall. That way you will have a strong Ottomans threatening Europe.

 

[Tufto]

I love playing the BYZ but I think that in EU4 they should be set up to fail every time. If you want to play them, then play a mod or CK2. In the time frame of EU4 they are suppose to fall. That way you will have a strong Ottomans threatening Europe.

The whole point of the game is that you can play as anyone, from Ryukyu to Pskov to France, and all are equally playable. Byz should always (or almost always) fail every time, but still playable by the player.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

The whole point of the game is that you can play as anyone, from Ryukyu to Pskov to France, and all are equally playable. Byz should always (or almost always) fail every time, but still playable by the player.

exactly! with byzantium being in tier 3 they'll probably make it to where the byzantines if played by the player can survive. As for the ottomans their AI needs to be more aggressive. i cant count the number of times the ottmans have alot of turkey and the balkans but thrace, karaman and candar are still alive somehow. Realistically the only way i could see byzantium surviving is converting to catholicism and somehow getting a stronger and better led crusade than the varna one. That or possibly killing the ottoman sultan and having a succesion war break out.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Ottomans didn't siezed vienna, poland stopped them.

EDIT: Which is why imo sobieski should be 6/6/6 general XD.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

Ottomans didn't siezed vienna, poland stopped them.

EDIT: Which is why imo sobieski should be 6/6/6 general XD.

what is he now also he should also prolly have atleast 8 military.

id love to see a decent movie made about the second siege of vienna

 

[Lexar_kg]

I played only as ERE from 'In Nomine'.
And it was so great mostly by small possibility of success.
I tried many times before finally could survive and eventually beat Ottomans.
And of course I'll play as ERE in EUIV. Constantinople will not be Istanbul! There will not be any minarets on Sophia!

I think 1444 start not worse then 1399. Byzantium will have Achea (so 3 provinces from start), Constantinople is one of the greatest trade nodes in world (as it seems from some screenshots). So we have some land (and some manpower) and some gold.
I have one question - if we start in november 1444 in EU3 we will see that Ottomans are in war with Serbia and Albania (which fights its own war). Will this war be in EUIV?

 

[DantesRevenge]

But it should be extremely hard for the player to prosper as Byzantium. Even if the Ottomans had lost the siege, they would have been back in a few years and won. The Romans were on their last legs in 1444, definitely, and when there's no human intervention they should go every time in EU4, and it should be an immense challenge for the player.

I agree with that. They deserve to dissapear in 95% of games. But still this must be in historical backround. Conquering Constaninople leads to the formation of Ottoman Empire and it would be better to be a serious conquest and not another conquest of a city. Byzantines had support from west even if they hated them and didnt want help from their catholic enemies so giving the player ways to ally with west would be interesting addition. After all, they would be out of game even with alliance with western states since turks would conquer and annex them.

 

[Thracian]

They held the whole of Constantinople

no, they held the tiny part with red circle there. it was not an obstacle or anything. in eu terms, it was so small that it wouldnt even take place in the game. but has symbolic meanings

 

[...............]

It should be possible. But that won't be simple.