Byzantium 1.5 Cheese

[Demusch]

One more thing to keep in mind: the call for peace can trigger from another war!

I was waiting for rebels to flip some Greek provinces and had enough troops ready, so figured I'd take Athens in the meantime. Athens was allied to Cyprus (still independent because of Venice trying to attack them, calling in the Mamluks), so I figured I'd get them both. Taking Cyprus took a little while longer because of additional cogs I needed to build, and when I finished that war I got a ticking call to peace.

Funny thing: when I was about to accept and make peace with the Otto's, I got both Bulgarian and Epirussian nationalists pop up, which proceded to siege their respective regions. So now I'm sitting here with over 10 WE waiting for the rebels to declare independence...

 

[Viperswhip]

For me, in the last two games I am able to ask for Vassalage of Albania March 11, 1445, on March 23rd I can ask for Vassal and 36 ducats. Either way, soon thereafter Ottos get into a second war against the Horde and Algiers joins the war against me. Algiers attacks my navy and lands troops.

This is the same thing I do when playing England and trying to win the 100 years war so I can't exactly blame the AI for using the trick, but it does require a bit of patience to get started.

 

[aitaituo]

I don't get the point of fixing this. you really will only upset the customer. the ai is not capable of abusing this, so they will just die to the turk 10 out of 10 games. In competitive multiplayer, at the end of the strategy you are still a tiny weak state. no better than starting as the damn ottomans in the first place. but they'll nerf it so hard that byzantium will be impossible to survive as, and the byzantine flavor dlc will have been a complete waste of money.

The bug is that the AI won't enter a scorched earth province if there's a single unit in it and that is by no means specific to Byzantium. I don't see why that shouldn't be fixed.

Plus, Byzantium is perfectly capable of surviving without this strategy just as Byzantium is perfectly capable of surviving without the previous fad strategy of allying two of the Balkan minors then no CB DoWing the third and force vassalizing all three. Heck, in another thread someone reported seeing an AI Byzantium beating the Ottomans all on its own.

 

[aurelplouf]

Russia has my dynasty, but whenever their heir takes over, they have a successor the same day... Patiently waiting

 

[StatikShocker]

some silliness going on here



greeks, greeks everywhere

 

[CyaN]

Plus, Byzantium is perfectly capable of surviving without this strategy just as Byzantium is perfectly capable of surviving without the previous fad strategy of allying two of the Balkan minors then no CB DoWing the third and force vassalizing all three. Heck, in another thread someone reported seeing an AI Byzantium beating the Ottomans all on its own.

Not sure if trolling or just never played ERE.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

I've beaten the ottoderps before without vassalizing all of the Balkans. First try, vassalized Albania gave up Albania and Athens. Allied Hungary and crimea/otto went to war with Poland/lith. I seized the opportunity and attacked with hungary then won the war. Granted this was like two patches ago.

 

[aitaituo]

Not sure if trolling or just never played ERE.

I beat the Ottomans single handedly in the first war, because none of my allies would accept and offensive CtA. I've recounted my strategy in a couple other threads, but it really just came down to being aggressive and a little lucky.

 

[StatikShocker]

I forced a PU over Lithuania, which had eaten a lot of russia, and got poland in PU transfered to me from them... then my 25 year old healthy kings just perishes for no reason a month after the peace treaty. the relations were obviously still negative... so they're gone

aragon calls me against naples, allied with austria. whatever. but austria takes over, and calls russia, who takes over AGAIN. I used all of my manpower establishing the union that failed. release crimea and pay ducats.

I could have been satisfied with just annexing muslims and hiding from europe... but what's the fun in that. had to take a risk. oh well.

I'm eying some Ukrainian nationalists... I'll get what I want, easy way or hard way

 

[Viperswhip]

I don't know if this scorched thing is a bug. It was probably a subtle change made because we used to cheese the AI the other way and have them die of attrition in scorched provinces. I thought reducing the time of the scorch to a year was the way around that, but either way, the AI being very reluctant to enter a scorched province is likely intended.

So, I tried this a few times. While you are whiling away your years in the middle east, take over Candar after they take Treb. Somehow I gained a province in Georgia after they were reduced to one province and vassalized. I didn't notice that my treasury was going down by 7 ducats per month because I was looting so much and taking money in peace deals and such. Ah, well, those 7 troops I somehow gained couldn't be joined to my army so an early total destruction of the Ottos was not in the cards. I poofed them down to 1 guy to scorch if the Ottos went that way and left it at that. I only noticed when I finally moved troops into Treb, I don't even have any idea when that flipped to me.

Anyway, there is fun to be had while waiting for the Ottos to collapse. When it happened I took Sal, and Athens, placing a troop in every grecian territory so they couldn't use harsh treatment anymore. That was around 1456 or so.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't know if this scorched thing is a bug. It was probably a subtle change made because we used to cheese the AI the other way and have them die of attrition in scorched provinces.

It's not a bug. It's an AI regression in an attempt to keep it from suicide into scorched provinces. Amusingly, you can still burn the AI to death with attrition too if you want, while also having the option to make scorch walls.

 

[Sabra]

Grear, i am one province short to getting Basileus achiev now! Ofc its Kaffa owned by Genoa which is allied to Austria, Hungary and Russia.. Still only year 1620, so i am gonna wait for oppurtunity (i waited already 100 years for seizing islands from Venice). Also guys do you suggest westernizing as Byzantium?

 

[StatikShocker]

Grear, i am one province short to getting Basileus achiev now! Ofc its Kaffa owned by Genoa which is allied to Austria, Hungary and Russia.. Still only year 1620, so i am gonna wait for oppurtunity (i waited already 100 years for seizing islands from Venice). Also guys do you suggest westernizing as Byzantium?

I've westernized... must say it was probably vital for the way I'm playing. Fought 4 head on wars with Russia now. Can't see myself winning those without the advantage of being western. Russia had about 2 whole points of morale over me for some reason, but my troops just do so much more damage... a long war where I sieged most of russia and actually ran them out of manpower... terribly exciting. I've been neglecting the muslims because of my interests in the north. PU on lithuania, vassal novgorod, dynasty in poland in sweden...

basically, you can get by with eastern, but I'd recommend westernizing if you want to tango with austria, france, spain, or russia. just tank diplo tech with diplo ideas and culture converting... I'm already caught up

 

[aragonFTW]

Venice have been insanely strong for the longest time and I have lost my cores on the four islands. But then I just got random PUs with two electors within 10 years and became Emperor in the West. Game over

definitely westernize or Russia/ the west will walk all over you due to your aggressive expansion.

 

[The-King]

Venice have been insanely strong for the longest time and I have lost my cores on the four islands. But then I just got random PUs with two electors within 10 years and became Emperor in the West. Game over

definitely westernize or Russia/ the west will walk all over you due to your aggressive expansion.

Venice isn't really much of an issue, the only possible problems will be if they ally with larger powers like poland or austria or spain. In my game they allied with Spain who inheritted aragon and naples and had a large navy. I ended up building like 100 galleys (over forcelimit by alot) and declaring war. It was much easier than I thought.

 

[StatikShocker]

castile used it glitched cheat of fabricating a claim on any province and ate venice. so I just quietly took my cores.

 

[Blastaz]

I normally jump on Venice right away, they tend to get into early wars and their ai can't really handle it which means that with a quick jump onto Corfu+Naxos+Crete before their navy gets their you can sit on the ticking war score defeating their stacks when they land till they capitulate.

 

[Sky_walker]

Well, seems like described strategy doesn't always work I just had a game where Ottoman fleet not only ignored Achaea and went straight for Constantinople, but also (while Constantinople was blocked) send troops to invade my scorched Constantinople with lonely 1k troops there.

 

[Viperswhip]

Well, seems like described strategy doesn't always work I just had a game where Ottoman fleet not only ignored Achaea and went straight for Constantinople, but also (while Constantinople was blocked) send troops to invade my scorched Constantinople with lonely 1k troops there.

You did something wrong. I have over 20 starts and this never, ever, ever happens or you just got very, very, very unlucky. They won't ignore Achea if you have one unit there and will ignore your fleet if you have it on patrol out of Const into Harbor and Back BEFORE they finish Albania.

I can't overstate how important looting is. If you can manage to bounce their army around a bit you can even loot the Bulgarian and Grecian provinces. I built an extra infantry and ran him up to Ablania on a Cog and ran him into Sofia, looting along the way before running back to the cog. Eventually when they have their army in just one place, loot away. I also find it best, and you do have the money if you loot a lot, to build 6 extra infantry to siege them down more quickly. Basically start in the east so that you don't lose looting provinces as quickly (you cannot loot provinces next to those you control, including occupy). Looting a province reduces its income by 50% for 6 months. If you can cycle it so they are always looted...well, I made the Ottos go bankrupt in 1454 last night, though an Otto war with the Golden Horde helped a bit. I finally got Grecian rebels, but despite having sieged all the Grecian lands only only Epirus, Monst and Thess flipped, while Macedonia and Erdine went free, so I don't know how that works. Anyway, I peaced out after that taking Hudav and Izmit so I could maybe be lucky enough to grab Erdine in the next war.

That's 5 games before I got rebels popping though, the key was sieging down Anatolia quickly and pressing them harder so they didn't have time to Harsh Treatment everything. After Bankruptcy, even with Harsh Treatment every place in the Otto empire has 15% rebel chance now, which is pretty funny and the idiots joined a coalition against me right after Kostaman insulted me, so I can draw them into another war if I want to.

 

[Sky_walker]

You did something wrong. I have over 20 starts and this never, ever, ever happens or you just got very, very, very unlucky. They won't ignore Achea if you have one unit there and will ignore your fleet if you have it on patrol out of Const into Harbor and Back BEFORE they finish Albania.

Yep. That's exactly what I did. I suppose RNG just hated me for a moment

I can't overstate how important looting is.

Oh yea, already had like a 3 rounds of galleys slowly building thanks to looting. Ottomans give plenty of gold But... then RNG decided to call a GG on me. ~_~ That's fine, will try again