Byzantine Usurpation, possible?

[Lucius Sejanus]

Now that there's finally a Byzantine DLC out, I've been thinking of writing an AAR. However, after playing a bit, I didn't see any option for an ambitious general to become emperor, which, to me, is key, both for usurping the throne myself and dealing with usurpers later. Sure, I can start factions in favour of random imperial princes, and can even start one in favour of a princess, maybe even one I married. But is there a way to plot for the throne on my own behalf, assuming I'm not related to the current emperor in any way? I can't see one, but maybe there's some event that I missed? Or, if that's just not a thing in vanilla, maybe there's a mod that fixes this oversight?

 

[I am.]

Interesting... you would probably need to be a super bad-a*s general for it to work, though, super popular and all, with a lot of prestige and victories under your name. Otherwise it would make no sense, the empire would fight back.

 

[Carmilla]

You should have a plot to fabricate a claim on the imperial throne available to you. After that you can press it, but I'd get lots of allies first if I was you. That's how I've taken over the imperial throne and deposed the Doukas dynasty in the past at least.

 

[Maui]

You can only start factions to put someone on the throne, if they have a claim on the emperial throne.

So you need to fabricate a claim on the empire, then start a faction to put yourself on the throne and then win the war.

Or you could marry a Doukas girl (with a claim) and install her on the throne and let your Son inherit the throne.

 

[gornard]

Can't you usurp the empire by getting something like 80% of its territory?

 

[Imperator1993]

Not really but I have been pushing for this for a plot or faction that would allow someone with no claim to get one on the throne.

 

[Loderingo]

Can't you usurp the empire by getting something like 80% of its territory?

You only need 50% actually, although that is of the de jure territory

 

[Ols]

Is that unique to Byzantine vassals? Because all other empires need 80% control to create or usurp.

 

[Maui]

Kingdoms require 50% to usurp or create.
Empires require 80% to usurp or create.

 

[Theddude]

Not really but I have been pushing for this for a plot or faction that would allow someone with no claim to get one on the throne.

I mentioned it in my own thread too, I see people bringing it up but it never seems to get addressed. They should either have a plot to get a claim like a fabricated one that disappears on your death or just allow factions for the throne like an elective monarchy (HRE).

 

[High_King]

All you need to do is hold a title directly subordinate to your liege lord (so, if you crave the Byzantine throne, you need to be a Despot (King-tier)) and you can start a plot to fabricate a claim on the title. Once you have one, you can begin a faction to get allies to your cause and then start a rebellion to put you on the throne. That's how I did it in my previous game, it's a good system I think.

 

[Westernesse]

Not really but I have been pushing for this for a plot or faction that would allow someone with no claim to get one on the throne.

Pretty sure I did just that, but I was the husband of the Doukas Empress and King of Sicily. I started a faction to put myself on the throne in place of my wife. I was just going to wait for our son to inherit it, but when I saw the faction option I seized the chance to start up my first faction. I could of fabricated a claim right before that, but I don't think I did because I'd just started playing as this character as his father had just died.

 

[cybrxkhan]

All you need to do is hold a title directly subordinate to your liege lord (so, if you crave the Byzantine throne, you need to be a Despot (King-tier)) and you can start a plot to fabricate a claim on the title. Once you have one, you can begin a faction to get allies to your cause and then start a rebellion to put you on the throne. That's how I did it in my previous game, it's a good system I think.

The problem is it takes a while to become Despot, and the chances of the AI being able to do so are relatively low - and by the time there's a Despot running around, several generations will have passed. Granted there's nothing wrong from a gameplay perspective, but from historically plausibility it is rather limiting.

Pretty sure I did just that, but I was the husband of the Doukas Empress and King of Sicily. I started a faction to put myself on the throne in place of my wife. I was just going to wait for our son to inherit it, but when I saw the faction option I seized the chance to start up my first faction. I could of fabricated a claim right before that, but I don't think I did because I'd just started playing as this character as his father had just died.

I bet that made for interesting conversations in bed.

 

[Lucius Sejanus]

I guess it's off to event scripting for me, then. All the systems in place make sense for a western feudal monarchy, but little for Byzantium (or, at least, an 11th century Byzantium). My main concern is not so much getting to the throne, as I could always marry an Emperess and go from there, but that I wouldn't need to fear ambitious generals myself once Emperor. Shame that this one aspect did not get adressed in a Byzantine-centric DLC.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I guess it's off to event scripting for me, then. All the systems in place make sense for a western feudal monarchy, but little for Byzantium (or, at least, an 11th century Byzantium). My main concern is not so much getting to the throne, as I could always marry an Emperess and go from there, but that I wouldn't need to fear ambitious generals myself once Emperor. Shame that this one aspect did not get adressed in a Byzantine-centric DLC.

Several modders (including myself) have or are trying to find solutions to this. However, the easiest way to mod in a bit more instability would be to give more people claims to the empire at the beginning of the game - Alexios Komennos, Romanos Diogenes, etc. are all present from the beginning of the game, yet some of them don't have claims unless you start after 1072, which is ridiculous. The later starts often have a lot of claimants, yet the 1066 start has one or two.

 

[disgradius]

You can start a faction to put yourself on the throne if you force the byzzies to use elective succession (most likely from another faction). I've always found it more fun to carve out territory on my own and usurp the title though.

 

[gamer42_au]

I have a character with extremely high intrigue, who was made spymaster for the Emperor. That Emperor then died (not actually at my hands in game terms, thopugh you would have to wonder).

My character was made Regent for the infant Emperor and married the Emperor's aunt (daughter of an earlier Emperor).

That is an absolutely classic situation for uncle (me) to depose boy-Emperor via palace coup and take over. But in CK it can only be done through military force by declaring war to press the wife's claim.

 

[anonymouswolfm]

You can start a faction to put yourself on the throne if you force the byzzies to use elective succession (most likely from another faction). I've always found it more fun to carve out territory on my own and usurp the title though.

Yes...so what you should do is first to lead a faction to change the succession laws to elective, and then start a new faction to put yourself on the throne.

 

[NejinOniwa]

I've actually gone through a rather unique variant on this in my current playthrough.

I was playing as Harald Hardråde in the Sept 1066 scenario, and ended up winning England uncontested. Two kings later, the second crusade launches...for the Kingdom of Hellas. That is, Constantinople. I ended up giving my second son the land and killing my first son off right after, and thus when my king died I was poof the emperor of the Latin Empire, Norway and England.
Meanwhile, the Byzantines had switched to Elective monarchy, and since my dukes in Hellas were de jure electors of the place and they liked me a lot, plus the Byzzies had lost lots of land in the east, I killed a few candidates and an emperor and poof, double emperorship.

Restoring the Roman Empire as Norwegian Latin Emperor was...weird. Especially when I get the "Province of Hibernia" event, wherein they mention the "Foul-smelling Norse settlers" as a downside. "But," I said to myself, "WE ARE THE FOUL-SMELLING NORSE SETTLERS, LEL." XD