Byzantine survival - 1.4

[Wesch]

So since one of the patches the naval blocked rarely works out due to the Crimea which gets acess through Moldavia, or the Ottomans leave the stack they used for conquest of Albania. I want to play Bizantium so bad. And in the 1.4 reality I didn't find a solution yet. I admit I wasn't searching roughly, but checked over and found nothing. So, what do you recommend to do, or do you have good link for some thread on the forum? I'll appreaciate any help.

 

[jakt]

So since one of the patches the naval blocked rarely works out due to the Crimea which gets acess through Moldavia, or the Ottomans leave the stack they used for conquest of Albania. I want to play Bizantium so bad. And in the 1.4 reality I didn't find a solution yet. I admit I wasn't searching roughly, but checked over and found nothing. So, what do you recommend to do, or do you have good link for some thread on the forum? I'll appreaciate any help.

you can watch what I did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czc49_NJgYA&list=PL8CU0ARgFaFxONxpMC4HLBlb1Tn5QkWxO

the start was The Balkan Option

Day 1:
1. ally serbia
2. declare war on albania
3. move boats and troops over towards blocading albania

when i could I won the war with Albania by vassalizing, which then caused teh ottomans to be at war with me. I peaced out with them giving up the vassalization of albania in the process. but I gained a 5 year truce with the Ottomans and a CB against Serbia (who dishonored my call to war).

I then took over the balkans and became buddies with lithuania and austria.

 

[Wesch]

Thanks a lot! I've to admit that I tried allying Poland (already leading PU with Lithuania) and Austria, but even these 3 great powers failed to stop Ottomans & Crimea from eating me, but I'll try your scenario.

 

[RadRussian]

Ally Poland and Austria and when ottomans attack you, make sure you initiate the fight early on when all armies are close by, otherwise they will burn their manpower with early game attrition. Since ottomans are op, you need At least double their force to beat them if not triple.

 

[Bovara]

As of 1.4 Aragon are also a very good and reliable ally to have. They bring the combined power of Aragon and Naples both as a land and naval power which can help to hold down the Ottomans alliances in North Africa and provide enough naval power to enforce the blockade of the Bosphorus. That can still work if Poland Vassalizes Moladavia early. In my Ironman game I went throught the ally and call of war trick to vassalize all 3 of the Balkan powers in my opening move after using the war of albania to make the ottomans break my vassalizations of Athens and Albania. Made grabbing them back later in reconquests easier than trying to annex them in previous versions of the game. Poland is still very good to have an ally but make sure you keep an eye on them. If Lithuania break the union they have, they become a weak liability that everyone wants to invade. Historically acurate. Hungary early on can be a strong ally as they have the great white Knight as their general and he can balance out the rather powerful ottoman leaders. Be prepared to go a few thousand ducats into debt it's necessary. Managing War exhaustion and inflation are key in this strategy. My top tip after all this is use merc infantry for at least half your troops. Manpower is so limited in early game and losses are firstly from infantry. Merc cav and later merc cannons are very costly in maintenance, so best avoid them and just use the merc infantry to preserve your manpower and thereby not appear weak to the AI. When you get to Turkey break them into releasing nations in multiple wars and taking trade power and or money. It weakens them and helps manage your finances. Once the ottomans are down to 4 provinces or so vassalize them and reconquer the released nations forcing them to recore to your ottoman vassal, and once down annex over time. I ended up having two turk vassals due to the loss of cores to get most of them as cheaply as possible. Sounds simple, but a lot has to go right alliances and wars around you. Oh and of course the ottomans not just deciding to declare war straight after the albania war or its 5 year truce. Best of luck it's a great game to achieve victory and restore the empire, but very hard earned

 

[jakt]

one other thing to note: the game I did started off with a "diplomatic" AI for ottomans, which seemed odd for them to have. by 1550 I have eaten Italy, Venice, the Balkans and parts of the malmuks, but never even touched the ottomans, until I finally DOWd them with the combined might of Austria, Lithuania, and Russia as my allies (by this date I am in 10th place score wise myself). I know I let them keep my cores for a while, but I was more concerned about them DOWing me when I was weak, so it took me a while to get around to attacking them

 

[knoddy]

the start for Byzantium is as follows.
-ally serbia/wallchalia
-dow albania (dont call allies in)
-send your fleet to blockade the port, once the warscore ticks to 25% sue for peace and vassalise them.
-this will put you in a war with Ottomans, instantly peace them and give up albania and athens as vassals.
-you now have a 5 year truce, suck up to the big boys (austria,Hungary,poland - i didnt worry about lithuania, 9 times out of 10 they end up in a PU with poland so as long as poland joins lith will too)
- the war with the ottomans will have give you CBs against serbia/wall because they would not have joined you. destroy them.
- try and flip some of the islands. Tribenzoid is a good target for conquest too as you have a core
- the biggest threat to a Byzantine game is the second inevitable war with the ottomans. its not about winning is about survival. keep you army in the balkans so they dont get slaughtered in Constatinople.
-wait for your allies to come help you and just try and score enough wins and kill enough of their doomstacks to get a white peace. if you survive this you are pretty much home and hosed. after the second war they generally start shit fights with the mamalukes and you can hit them when they are down.
-go way over your naval force limit because you can keep them penned in asia, after the second war, and have no opposition in europe. it doesnt cost much for naval forces i think I am currenlty about 20 ships over mine and it costs me an extra 1 gold a month.
- dont push things too far, if you get into a war and it starts to turn nasty get out with what you can. the ottomans are a beast and things can go badly fast.
-if you can break their alliance with crimea it helps.
- tribenzoid + giving up serbia/wall/bosnia as vassals can be a good way to get peace out of the OE for the second war, also you have a core on tribenzoid so you can take it back later. you almost cannot win this war its more about not losing as i said above.
-you can still break the AI a bit with the bosborus crossing. if you move your fleet into the straights every time they try and cross they will stop crossing and start walking around thru crimea. you then run your fleet back to port before it gets destroyed by the stronger OE fleet. the AI often gets half way to around georgia then turns to come back across the straight. rinse and repeat.

in my current campaign they are a spent force owning only the coast of asia minor and their capital in europe. I finally havea decent forcelimit and ive begun expanding into italy whilst at peace with the ottomans.

 

[domdom]

I followed the general strats outlined here and I'm doing alright but I've hit a strange unexpected roadblock: Poland backstabs me and joins in the defense of the Ottomans midway through my war?

The year is 1472. I've vassalized Bosnia, Serbia, and Walachia. I've allied Austria (who has a PU with hungary) and Poland (who has a PU with Lithuania. Aragon was part of the alliance, but we parted ways awhile back after they went to war with Austria.

We already fought one successful stalemate against the Ottomans about a decade ago. Now they are at war with Karaman and they've moved all their forces away from my side. I declare war and move my fleet to block them bringing up reinforcements. Neither Poland or Austria would join the war, so I don't call either. My vassals and I descend upon the Ottoman lands and lay siege. So far so good.

About a year later, despite still being my ally and in a royal marriage and +170 relations, Poland and its allies join my war against the Ottomans... on the Ottomans side!!

Any clues what would cause Poland to do this? I've reloaded several times and it always happens but I can't figure out why. I can't see anything that points towards any kind of friendly relations... however I do see Poland has a conquest casus belli on the Ottomans for Silistria. Could that be causing this?

 

[domdom]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh found it. Crimea became a protectorate of Lithuania, and that triggered them (and Poland) to join the war on the side of the Ottomans.

Dammit Lithuania!

 

[Morgan Wight]

Yea, that's textbook Lithuania as of 1.4

 

[Wonderlust King]

Here's the strategy that worked for me in 1.4:

1. Send first diplomat to declare war without causus Belli on Ragusa and the second to warn the Ottomans.
2. Hire the diplomatic reputation advisor (if you don't get him, you need to restart), and within a month Serbia should send an alliance offer to you.
3. Improve relations with Poland & Austria. Poland getting PU with Lithuania is important factor. Use all spare gold for galleys - take loans, so you always have at least 2 galleys constantly being built in Achaea and Morea until you get at least 20 of them.
4. Once you have acquired Ragusa, assault Bosnia and vassalise them.
5. Then you should proceed to invade Wallachia; If you're lucky you'll get a trade dispute CB, if you're not, attack them eating the stability hit. Annex them in a peace deal.
6. Before you sign a peace with Wallachians call Serbia to arms and they'll refuse - use a CB gained in this manner to attack and make them your vassal.
7. At this point, you should have estabilished control over Balkanks and alliance with Austria and Polish-Lithuanian union on your side. From this moment, things can go two ways: the Ottomans will attack you, or they'll be embroiled in a war with the Mameluks or one of the hordes, which will signal your time to strike. Wait for their forces to be relocated to Anatolia.
8. Blocking the strait is a crucial strategy to win: I know, the Ottomans can take a long way around, but once you see them approaching, just move your forces across and siege things and Anatolia. They have no other way to deal with you other than go around AGAIN. Sooner or later they'll get caught by your allies and after long and bloody struggle, decimated (eliminate all 1k regiments they'll try to raise though). Actually, I got my cores after the first war without sieging a single province in Greece

After the first war, the rest is easy.

This is the result so far:


Good luck!

 

[kvk]

You guys should try Trebizond! it's fun and when you form byzantium you get cores on all of anatolia.

 

[tbitw1322]

You guys should try Trebizond! it's fun and when you form byzantium you get cores on all of anatolia.

 

[kvk]

View attachment 100869

Nice, I in my game I took georgia and aq qoyonly first, and then attacked an independent athens, and I took the provinces needed to form Byzantium, giving me cores on all of anatolia, I wonder why you didn't do that? I guess you just liked Trebizond.

 

[Orkonkel]

Wow. That religious unity hurt a lot. Anywhere you go, there's catholics/sunnis. Oww.

For my playthrough, I built up gallies after peacing with Ottomans til I could beat Venice in a war (after vassalising balkans and getting cores back from trebizond/knights, of course). Beating Venice gives me back another few cores plus plus that one province next to Ragusa (forgot the name of it at the moment). This means that when Ottomans start their next war, I became war leader with Poland, Russia, and Austria on my side. Instant peace where I release Poland's vassals for warscore.

This was fricken lulzy. Anyway, third war I got lots of cores back, then I went into Italia and Egypt while waiting for Ottoman peace to expire (didn't have OE since all I did was getting cores back + releasing Bulgaria as vassal). The start for Byzantium was fairly challenging (and pretty gimmicky too, instant peacing by releasing Albania/Athens didn't really take much skill or practice). Najd was definitely more challenging but this is a pretty interesting achievement too. I love all the events popping up that give me monarch points + army tradition + patriarch stuff. I wish there was more stuff like that for other nations (like the conquest of Jerusalem or Antioch and stuff).

 

[aragonFTW]

Crimea should be fixed in the next patch as it will no longer agree to be a protectorate of someone on the same continent. Which should make things a little more sane.

 

[Ame]

This is gamey extremism but could you accept the cultural shift as Ottomans then form Byzantines by
taking Constantinople, Morea, and Achaea?

 

[Fryz]

View attachment 100869

wow! that's an impressive trebizond, mind to tell how you make it?

 

[Hakairyu]

This is gamey extremism but could you accept the cultural shift as Ottomans then form Byzantines by
taking Constantinople, Morea, and Achaea?

You could before 1.4, and those games were one of my favourites. OttoRomans (Byz with Ottoman ideas) were not only fun (easy, but fun) but quite possible considering Mehmet II was not quite religious and the Pope offered the same exact thing to them. Unfortunately Paradox decided that you can take an Empire that considered itself the legitimate successor to Rome after taking Constantinople, make it Greek and Orthodox, but can't proceed to make it into Rome. Unless you count the Heretical German Confederation (as a Greek Orthodox looking at it would think at the time) option.