Byzantine-Seljuk Wars

[unmerged(129932)]

I played a couple games with various members of the Doukas family - and I found that every time the Romans swiftly defeat the Turks. I am not complaining because of my inner romanophile, but it seems ahistorical. Not to mention that the Seljuks never follow up with another war, especially when the empire is in crisis (ducal rebellions, and so forth).

 

[Joel M Bridge]

Pssh give it good month or to see how bad child emperor can bring it all crashing down.

 

[unmerged(179107)]

I like it.

 

[unmerged(129932)]

I like it.

Oh, I do too. I am not saying I do not. It is just that the empire was essentially falling apart under Michael VII's reign - and I had an easy time reigning in a couple of rebellious vassals.

 

[Subcomandante]

Oh, I do too. I am not saying I do not. It is just that the empire was essentially falling apart under Michael VII's reign - and I had an easy time reigning in a couple of rebellious vassals.

Well as Michael my vassals rebelled to-a-man to depose me. Granted the war against the Seljuks was won and the peace secured by then. But five years later Alp Arslan tried again and this time the new emperor, weakened by civil war, only beat him because I went east with my personal army and timed my arrival on the decisive battlefield to coincide with his. Without me he would have lost that battle, and likely all afterwards too. In addition, I actually bought 9000 mercenaries but was bankrupt before they arrived so I had to cut them loose again. Still my 3000 men were enough.

 

[A_Dane]

it's quite funny actually, back in CK1 I never once saw the byzzies win. (unless i was playing in the area). Always saw most of the byzantine lands be gobbled up or rebel away within the first 20 years or so.

Though the thought of a vibrant living empire is somewhat.. scary

 

[kingsword]

Yes, first game was rather accurate in the result. However the cause was ultra-poor stewardship and crime building cutting away all important levies of Constantinople. It was a challenge to hold Alp Arslan at bay since his army was bigger and better led.

I'm rather disappointed how CK2 Byzantines just call in the levies and it's already big enough to sweep half of the map. Since the game cannot simulate mercenaries switching sides at Manzikert, it becomes a dull and one-sided affair. I feel a Byzantine game will be low on challenge as it is.

 

[Zohrath]

Why do people insist on making Manzikert so important? Ten-year civil war anyone? I think the demo has so far modeled that very well.

 

[kingsword]

Because Manzikert literally is the basis of the whole game, leading to the Crusades? The game isn't named Norman Conquest or something, you know.

 

[unmerged(96477)]

Because Manzikert literally is the basis of the whole game, leading to the Crusades? The game isn't named Norman Conquest or something, you know.

What about the ottomans? will they appear as the house(dynasty) of Osman, who eventually conquer constantinople. Will be a sweet DLC and interesting start they since the game ends with the fall of constantinople

 

[KroganElite]

The easiest way to solve this problem is to lower starting opinion towards the emperor a bit so that the he can't call on so much levies. Keep in mind im talking REALLY MINOR changes. In CK2 i've never seen the Seljuks win that first war.

edit:

What about the ottomans? will they appear as the house(dynasty) of Osman, who eventually conquer constantinople. Will be a sweet DLC and interesting start they since the game ends with the fall of constantinople

I'm pretty sure the ottomans come much later which might just be out of this game's timeline.

edit2: Ok they were, but it doesn't look like they were THAT strong at the time. It wasn't so much their military strength that saw their rise, but much so the decline of the byzantine empire(or so I understand it; correct me if i'm wrong).

 

[unmerged(96477)]

The easiest way to solve this problem is to lower starting opinion towards the emperor a bit so that the he can't call on so much levies. Keep in mind im talking REALLY MINOR changes. In CK2 i've never seen the Seljuks win that first war.

edit:



I'm pretty sure the ottomans come much later which might just be out of this game's timeline.

Doesn't the game end in 1453? which is the fall of constantinople. The ottomans 'started' in 1299 check:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#Rise_of_the_Ottoman_Empire_.281299.E2.80.931453.29

 

[Peuri]

Since the game cannot simulate mercenaries switching sides at Manzikert, it becomes a dull and one-sided affair. I feel a Byzantine game will be low on challenge as it is.

Actually, the game can simulate mercenaries switching sides, it happened to me in the demo when I ran out of money and it happened to an AI player too when fighting against me. It just requires that the person who hired has no money left.

 

[Sir Garnet]

Maybe the Seljuk AI can employ the Fabian strategy of avoiding mainforce battles, luring the Romans far afield when the Romans move in strength and attacking weak points when their forces draw back to deal with revolts.

 

[kingsword]

The easiest way to solve this problem is to lower starting opinion towards the emperor a bit so that the he can't call on so much levies. Keep in mind im talking REALLY MINOR changes. In CK2 i've never seen the Seljuks win that first war.

edit2: Ok they were, but it doesn't look like they were THAT strong at the time. It wasn't so much their military strength that saw their rise, but much so the decline of the byzantine empire(or so I understand it; correct me if i'm wrong).

Doukas starts with +30 bonus to vassal relations because he's defending against infidels, that's already the only thing keeping it afloat with such a terrible ruler. It'd fall apart right away considering Byzantines also have high crown authority. And it does, but after the battle. However, I don't see the Seljuks turning it around because they also break apart with rebellions after Alp Arslan dies. Way too many rebellions in the game already, Muslims need something else.

As for Ottomans, the power vacuum sure helped at the start but after that, they repeatedly defeated multiple crusader leagues, all Balkan states, everyone in the Middle East. In fact, only Timur was able to deal a serious defeat upon them (and he did that vs anyone he fought, one of the most exceptional cases in history) during CK's timeframe. They also were the closest thing to a New Rome: Never again Mediterranean region saw another dominant world power that encompasses most of its shores with a 'Pax' effect.