Byzantine rename

[unnamed91]

Hi all. I am new to this forum, so i hope my post will have any weight at all in other people eyes.

I register purely for two things. First one is, please consider renaming Byzantine empire to Roman empire. I see no reason to call it Byzantine empire... as we all know, it was used much later. Seeing 'Byzantine empire' just hurt eyes of history fans, which are many at this forum. Thank you in advance.

Second reason is, to show support for Imperator Rome. Although its much hated for its start (which is understandable, no offence), I am still here to support you, because it can be really great game.

 

[Cyhort]

It's been Byzantine Empire in every single game Paradox has ever made. I don't think they're gonna change it now 3 weeks out from release...

 

[Battlex]

Hi all. I am new to this forum, so i hope my post will have any weight at all in other people eyes.

I register purely for two things. First one is, please consider renaming Byzantine empire to Roman empire. I see no reason to call it Byzantine empire... as we all know, it was used much later. Seeing 'Byzantine empire' just hurt eyes of history fans, which are many at this forum. Thank you in advance.

Second reason is, to show support for Imperator Rome. Although its much hated for its start (which is understandable, no offence), I am still here to support you, because it can be really great game.

byzantine is a histiographical term, and if in on release, allows a roman empire formable thing

 

[unnamed91]

It wasnt called Byzantine empire until after it stoped existing.... It was Romaioi

 

[Battlex]

It wasnt called Byzantine empire until after it stoped existing.... It was Romaioi

yes well done, its still why paradox keeps it around

 

[Darrigan]

Well, as an history fan, I prefer to have the term "Byzantine empire". Indeed, it's not the term that was used at the time. But at the same time, almost the entire game is in a language that was not spoken in this period: modern day English. I prefer linguistic continuity.

Moreover, the term Roman Empire could not only be applied to the Eastern part. There also was a Western Roman Empire: the Holy Roman Empire. I remember from my professor in Classical History back in university that this is one of the main reasons almost all historians stick to the term "Byzantine empire", even the ones that specialize in Byzantine history.

If you would claim that this Holy Roman Empire was not a real Roman empire, because it is not continuous to the old Western Roman empire, I refer to Chris Wickham and his work "Framing the Early Middle Ages". Alternatively, check out his shorter (and arguably more accessible) work "The Inheritance of Rome". It's not that there was not a continuous line of emperors in the West, that there was no empire. Even the Frankish king Clovis had the title of consul.

I reckon that the Western Empire after 476 A.D. was not the same as before, but neither was the Eastern Empire in the 8th, 9th, 10th or even 11th century.

If you really want the entity to be called "Roman empire", it'll be easilty modable; just change a line in the localisation file. I even bet that there'll even be a mod available within a week after release.

 

[unnamed91]

Well yes, as that is Popes propaganda due to envy of eastern romea. As you well know, holy roman empire, was neither holy, nor roman, nor empire practicly... So yes, I do claim holy roman empire was not roman at all. Yes, it did started with frankia, because pope looked west, trying to find any way to make schemes to true heirs of roman empire.

 

[Battlex]

Well yes, as that is Popes propaganda due to envy of eastern romea. As you well know, holy roman empire, was neither holy, nor roman, nor empire practicly... So yes, I do claim holy roman empire was not roman at all. Yes, it did started with frankia, because pope looked west, trying to find any way to make schemes to true heirs of roman empire.

The Isurians were seen as barbarians before the rise of an isurian dynasty. The voltaire quote is for voltaire's time, not for Otto's empire

 

[Olden Weiss]

Most everything in Crusader Kings doesn't use its historical name. Most of Scotland, for instance. Europe! CK doesn't call it Europa, it calls it something players today are more familiar with. It's the same with Byzantium. Many people who saw words like Rûm, Imperium Graecorum, or similar... would not at all make that connection. In fact, "Greek Empire" is probably the most accurate medieval Anglicization of its name, and how many minds automatically equate "Greek" to "Eastern Roman"? "Byzantine Empire" is the name we know it by today, and is thus the best name for identification.

Just as Germany calling its country "Deutschland", or Japan "Nihon-koku", doesn't change the fact that their Anglicized names show up on the average map... So too, I feel, should the name on CK3's map should reflect what players will recognize before it looks at what the nation called itself.

 

[ShadyGuy_SuspiciousGoal]

And so it begins

I want it to be called Istanbulym Empire.

 

[Laurentius Bachari]

This has been discussed over more than 40 pages in an older thread, which is no longer open:

Empire of the Romans instead of Byzantine Empire

I know this has been discussed in the past but I do hope this time Paradox will have the correct nomenclature for Eastern Rome. The Arabs, Chinese and Turks referred to them as Romans and land of Rum. They themselves referred themselves as Roman...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

I would recommend reading it first, it might contain interesting arguments for or against your proposal.

 

[Darrigan]

Most everything in Crusader Kings doesn't use its historical name. Most of Scotland, for instance. Europe! CK doesn't call it Europa, it calls it something players today are more familiar with. It's the same with Byzantium. Many people who saw words like Rûm, Imperium Graecorum, or similar... would not at all make that connection. In fact, "Greek Empire" is probably the most accurate medieval Anglicization of its name, and how many minds automatically equate "Greek" to "Eastern Roman"? "Byzantine Empire" is the name we know it by today, and is thus the best name for identification.

Just as Germany calling its country "Deutschland", or Japan "Nihon-koku", doesn't change the fact that their Anglicized names show up on the average map... So too, I feel, should the name on CK3's map should reflect what players will recognize before it looks at what the nation called itself.

This. Entirely.

 

[elvain]

Hi all. I am new to this forum, so i hope my post will have any weight at all in other people eyes.

I register purely for two things. First one is, please consider renaming Byzantine empire to Roman empire. I see no reason to call it Byzantine empire... as we all know, it was used much later. Seeing 'Byzantine empire' just hurt eyes of history fans, which are many at this forum. Thank you in advance.

Second reason is, to show support for Imperator Rome. Although its much hated for its start (which is understandable, no offence), I am still here to support you, because it can be really great game.

Hi,

warm welcome on the forums.
As for your request. I don't think there is a point in asking for it, because as others said, it is commonly accepted term used by historians and is used in all Paradox game.
You and many more will probably disagree, but I don't think there's a point arguing about it. There was a 42 pages long thread where both sides were presenting their positions and backing them, sometimes in very heated manner... and the discussion has stalled and thread got closed.

Empire of the Romans instead of Byzantine Empire

I know this has been discussed in the past but I do hope this time Paradox will have the correct nomenclature for Eastern Rome. The Arabs, Chinese and Turks referred to them as Romans and land of Rum. They themselves referred themselves as Roman...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[Axis89]

Hi all. I am new to this forum, so i hope my post will have any weight at all in other people eyes.

I register purely for two things. First one is, please consider renaming Byzantine empire to Roman empire. I see no reason to call it Byzantine empire... as we all know, it was used much later. Seeing 'Byzantine empire' just hurt eyes of history fans, which are many at this forum. Thank you in advance.

Second reason is, to show support for Imperator Rome. Although its much hated for its start (which is understandable, no offence), I am still here to support you, because it can be really great game.

I agree with you, and it is correct, but if the game has the option to rename title then it wont bother me too much. You have to wait for the academic world to change the term, because as other have pointed out, it is a name to know which period in Roman history we are talking about when researching or discussing.

I too have made the point that this is a RPG and therefore through the eyes of people back then it would be Empire of the Romans, and it is rightfully so too, but it is more famously known as Byzantine Empire, and therefore most people who doesnt read history have never heard of it before and dont know the Roman state actually fell in 1453.
But a lot of people here on these forums oppose to new thoughts, therefore historians need to change the way they talk about it first, which I can happily say is about to happen, slowly, as the Byzantine Empire as a history subject is rising in popularity among newer/recently educated historians.
I talked to one of the most famous historians about Roman history in Rome(Famous/well respected, Norwegian historian), and she told me after her lecture that the Byzantine Empire is well known as truly Roman, but misunderstandments happen and here we are, but she pointed out that it will change once this topic becomes big enough as she said the Byzantine studies have long been forgotten in the shadow of classical Rome.

Short answer, lets please everyone for now and have a rename title option

 

[Olden Weiss]

Short answer, lets please everyone for now and have a rename title option

Good news: All titles can be renamed! Confirmed in this Q&A: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ev-answers-and-important-information.1289830/

▲ Can we rename provinces?
► All titles can be renamed.

 

[Tschobo]

Didn't we have this topic dissected properly already? Yes there is the thread that Elvain showed.

And I remember that you are able to rename titles that you own in CK2. So if they kept this feature (which is likely) you even can rename it if you play it. For me I prefer to call it ERE (you probably know what it means). And Olden Weiss went to the QA and proofed it that you can rename it.

 

[Rakdar]

I am worried now because modding localization will change checksum, unlike in CK2, which means you cannot rename Byz in the files and still go for an achievement run. If there is no way to customize the title name in-game either, that’s just going to be sad (and not just for Byz, for all of us who enjoyed custom titles).

 

[DaJay42]

I am worried now because modding localization will change checksum, unlike in CK2, which means you cannot rename Byz in the files and still go for an achievement run. If there is no way to customize the title name in-game either, that’s just going to be sad (and not just for Byz, for all of us who enjoyed custom titles).

In-game renaming is already long since confirmed (and quoted from the FAQ in this very thread), so that worry is moot.

 

[viola]

We already had this discussion. The correct historical nomenclature is Byzantine Empire.

 

[ShadyGuy_SuspiciousGoal]

We already had this discussion. The correct historical nomenclature is Byzantine Empire.

That nomenclature is made by the Western Scholars who were salty because they are not the true heir of the glorious Roman Empire. /s