Byzantine Monarchy

[Heinrikr]

That 3 province minor had been alive for more than 1000 years, and it's the last remnants of the Roman Empire

And? This game is set in the early modern period, not the classical or medieval period, and Byzantium already gets more attention and works better than the Netherlands and Prussia, which actually were important in this period. If Byzantium does not die before 1500 the game should be tweaked until they do because byzantium has no place in this game past 1500.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

And? This game is set in the early modern period, not the classical or medieval period, and Byzantium already gets more attention and works better than the Netherlands and Prussia, which actually were important in this period. If Byzantium does not die before 1500 the game should be tweaked until they do because byzantium has no place in this game past 1500.

Now now, frustrated as I may be by the ludicrous demands of some to give an irrelevant country flavor that should go to other tags, it was possible that Byzantium could survive in some form past 1500. Specifically, if the Catholics somehow managed a successful version of Varna before the Ottoman conquest (which could have been delayed for various reasons), then it's possible/likely that Byzantium would hang on for a while longer as a dependency of whoever kicked the Ottomans out of Europe.

Unlikely, granted, but not impossible, especially if a player is in charge of one of the Catholics. Having Byzantium as a natural target of the Ottomans is more than enough to represent why they died so early in the game's timeframe.

 

[Alliegorical]

I'd actually say despotic monarchy describes the Byzantine Empire (and the Roman Empire after Diocletian for that matter) perfectly. In fact, the Byzantine Empire from Heraclius until the 4th crusade was the textbook example of despotic monarchy; it did feudalize somewhat when the Palaiologoi contented themselves with gaining oaths of fealty from local crusader lords in Greece and Anatolia rather than attempting to annex them outright, but it was still more despotic than feudal to the very end.

 

[Chief of Staff]

Just an observation but I noticed that guaranteeing the independence of Byzantium (as I usually do) as England seem to deter Ottomans from declaring war upon them. Presumably, the naval strength, as England is better known for, plays a role in AI deciding whether they want to risk a war with a naval power about equal to or greater than their own naval strength.

 

[keynes2.0]

And? This game is set in the early modern period, not the classical or medieval period, and Byzantium already gets more attention and works better than the Netherlands and Prussia, which actually were important in this period. If Byzantium does not die before 1500 the game should be tweaked until they do because byzantium has no place in this game past 1500.

Funny how people in every other thread dont say whenever someone mentions blobbing:

AND This game is set in the early modern period, not WWII, blobbing already gets too much attention and works better then the Concert of Europe or exploration. If a blob survives for 50 years the game should be tweaked until it doesn't happen anymore.

Yet Byzantium OMG PLZ NERF

 

[Alliegorical]

Funny how people in every other thread dont say whenever someone mentions blobbing:

AND This game is set in the early modern period, not WWII, blobbing already gets too much attention and works better then the Concert of Europe or exploration. If a blob survives for 50 years the game should be tweaked until it doesn't happen anymore.

Yet Byzantium OMG PLZ NERF

Sometimes blobs happened. Russia blobbed. Austria blobbed. Poland blobbed. Sweden blobbed. Prussia blobbed. Spain blobbed weirdly. Mughals, Ottomans, and Manchu blobbed hard.

 

[Heinrikr]

Now now, frustrated as I may be by the ludicrous demands of some to give an irrelevant country flavor that should go to other tags, it was possible that Byzantium could survive in some form past 1500. Specifically, if the Catholics somehow managed a successful version of Varna before the Ottoman conquest (which could have been delayed for various reasons), then it's possible/likely that Byzantium would hang on for a while longer as a dependency of whoever kicked the Ottomans out of Europe.

Unlikely, granted, but not impossible, especially if a player is in charge of one of the Catholics. Having Byzantium as a natural target of the Ottomans is more than enough to represent why they died so early in the game's timeframe.

True but if Byzantium survived and Ottomans was absent that would be such a different world that we might as well have an alien invasion while we're at it. I think different historical possibilities should be looked at of course, but there are some which simply change too much, byzantium being among them in my view. An early modern period without a huge and powerful muslim empire trying to eat up europe from the east? It wouldn't be the early modern period without them!

Funny how people in every other thread dont say whenever someone mentions blobbing:

AND This game is set in the early modern period, not WWII, blobbing already gets too much attention and works better then the Concert of Europe or exploration. If a blob survives for 50 years the game should be tweaked until it doesn't happen anymore.

Yet Byzantium OMG PLZ NERF

Early modern period was the age of blobbing. Just compare the map of the start of eu4 and the end. It was a massacre of OPMs in europe. That's why I don't get why so many people are compaining about big countries being to strong and small countries to weak.. They are supposed to be weak and get eaten up god flip it.

 

[Aigars]

Heinrikr you so silly

 

[Heinrikr]

Heinrikr you so silly

yeah.. I guess I am..

 

[Merrick Chance']

And? This game is set in the early modern period, not the classical or medieval period, and Byzantium already gets more attention and works better than the Netherlands and Prussia, which actually were important in this period. If Byzantium does not die before 1500 the game should be tweaked until they do because byzantium has no place in this game past 1500.

Let alone the Mughals or the Qing which rarely form and were both infinitely more important during the period.

 

[frankatank109]

It doesn't matter how big a country is in AI hands, just what the player does. Even though Byzantium usually disappears, it is also probably one of the most played countries in EU4, thus meriting it far greater attention than it's size and AI destiny would warrant otherwise.

 

[Dakilla TM]

This isn't much to ask for IMO. Just give the ERE what OP mentioned, it changes like 2 lines of text in the game files. No one is asking for Byzantium to get a second DLC. Just give ERE a unique government like OP asked for. I thought it was a reasonable request

 

[Heinrikr]

This isn't much to ask for IMO. Just give the ERE what OP mentioned, it changes like 2 lines of text in the game files. No one is asking for Byzantium to get a second DLC. Just give ERE a unique government like OP asked for. I thought it was a reasonable request

I don't think it is a reasonable request at all. We must have some perspective here. Is Byzantium, out of all countries, really the most deserving of a unique government type? Really?

 

[talilu]

A slightly off topic question but why is it that western tech nations get the Byzantine refugees event that gives them cheaper tech but Byzantine ideas do not? Apparently refugees from Byzantium are good enough to improve western tech nations while they are not good enough to improve their own eastern tech nation?

Same should go for Granada. How could the nation that made Castile have somewhat "western" tech is so far lagging behind in technology? The ancient works of Greeks and Romans were translated to Arabic and kept in Granadan libraries, which would be translated back to Latin/Spanish/Whatever to teach the European knowledge back to Europeans.

It makes no sense that Granada would become absolutely intolerant and ban all scientific works like the Catholic Church and lead to some kind of "Age of Darkness" in the future since they have muslim tech and fall centuries behind the Castillians at 1600s or so. Granada and Byzantium should be Western tech.

 

[talilu]

Imperial power was weak in Morea because Morea was disconnected from Constantinople and there was no effective way to ensure transportation and communication there, not because the Byzantines were feudal. If anything, it would be a March regardless of Government Type if we're going for historical accuracy (just how Byzantium would start off Catholic as well, if that was the goal). But, that's not the best idea for obvious reasons.

By that logic, we would have a Catholic Bosnia and Circassia as well.

-In his letter, Pope John XXII (to the king Zichia (Circassia) Verzacht ["Верзахта" in Cyrillic script]), the Rome (Avignon) Pontiff thanks the Governor of Circassians for his assistance in implementing the Christian faith among the Adygs (Circassians).[11] Verzacht's power and status was so high that his example was followed by the rest of the Circassian princes: They took the Roman Catholic faith.

I guess sometimes history lags behind the gameplay.

 

[FreeSoc]

I don't think it is a reasonable request at all. We must have some perspective here. Is Byzantium, out of all countries, really the most deserving of a unique government type? Really?

How does Byzantium getting a unique government preclude other nations getting unique governments? Like, seriously, if instituting a new government for Byzantium takes one Paradox employee an hour at most, I genuinely fail to see how that's a bad thing in any way, unless you have some kind of pathological hatred for the good ol' Roman Empire.

 

[Itchel]

Wasn't granada always western up until recently?
Idk about making byzantium western though.

 

[GrounchoVilla]

I think it's fair to say that the Byzantines deserve more of a chance, but in all probability they were far more screwed in 1444 than Mesoamerican nations were. Even little Granada was able to hold on much longer in real life.

Early modern period was the age of blobbing. Just compare the map of the start of eu4 and the end. It was a massacre of OPMs in europe. That's why I don't get why so many people are compaining about big countries being to strong and small countries to weak.. They are supposed to be weak and get eaten up god flip it.

I like that blobbing is going from gamer slang to a term of historical analysis.

 

[GeneralJhon]

I agree with the Despotic Monarchy. Also i want to apologize with the byzantophile stuff. What i meant is that even one person that loves Byzantine History and stuff is reasonable and that i dont want to move a lot of resources just to give "a little" flavor in the government, since, as i said before, there is a lot of options that can suite Byzantium with the CS Expansion.

 

[frankatank109]

I don't think it is a reasonable request at all. We must have some perspective here. Is Byzantium, out of all countries, really the most deserving of a unique government type? Really?

The size of the country does not matter. The only thing that matters is how much it gets played. And Byzantium is one of the most played countries in EU4.