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Grand Historian

Pretentious Username | Iaponia Lead Dev
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So, with 1.12, Empire became a government rank and Byzantium lost it's unique government, which was replace with a... Feudal Monarchy? Okay then...

I don't really think a Feudal Monarchy would best describe Byzantium at the time, but Despotic wouldn't necessarily either. Frankly, Byzantium's administration at the time was a strange and antiquated combination of Despotic and Feudal, with even a bit of Administrative, and I don't think either would really do it justice to begin with.

So, I propose that the Byzantines get a unique government form; the Byzantine Monarchy: +10% Land Morale, -10% Unjustified Demands, +0.5 Yearly Legitimacy, 10% Minimum Province Autonomy, and fixed at Empire Rank. Westernizing, in a similar fashion to the Celestial Empire, would turn you into an Absolute Monarchy, and give you a modifier that would give a permanent +0.5 bonus to Yearly Legitimacy.

The logic behind this is pretty simple; though the Empire was steadily declining, it never gave up hope that it would be able to reclaim it's former glory, and did continue to make small gains in it's waning days (reconquering Achaea, Thessalonica, various Aegean Islands and extracting tribute from Athens). Likewise, being able to claim yourself as the legitimate successors to the Roman Empire was a pretty popular thing in EU4's timeframe; both Russia and the Ottomans each claimed they were the legitimate successors to Byzantium, backed up by both (claimed) bloodlines and religious authority, so it would make sense that an uninterrupted continuation of the Byzantine Empire would be able to get some legitimacy from that (though not enough to ensure that the Emperors would not have to face attempts at usurpation). Finally, as mentioned both earlier and in Byzantium's own ideas, the Empire's administration was very much an antiquated and inefficient mess, which wasn't helped by the disparaged nature of their holdings, and in addition to historicity I think it would be a good way to balance out strong early game bonus' from government, in addition to adding in some more risk/reward in regards to reforming (westernizing) the administration.

I would also like to propose that the Byzantine Ideas get rearranged:

Byzantine Ideas currently:

Traditions: -10% Advisor Cost, +3 Tolerance of Own
Idea 1: -20% Mercenary Cost
Idea 2: +10% Manpower, +5% Goods Produced
Idea 3: +10% Tax Modifier
Idea 4: -10% Stability Cost
Idea 5: +10% Global Trade Power
Idea 6: +5% Discipline
Idea 7: +3% Missionary Strength
Bonus: +2 Prestige

Proposed rebalance:

Traditions: -10% Idea Cost, +2 Tolerance of Own
Idea 1: -20% Mercenary Cost
Idea 2: -15% Core Cost
Idea 3: +10% Global Trade Power
Idea 4: +3% Missionary Strength
Idea 5: +10% Manpower, -10% Culture Conversion Cost
Idea 6: +5% Discipline
Idea 7: -10% Stability Cost
Bonus: +2 Prestige
 
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A 3-province minor destined to die within a few years of start in 90% of games does not warrant more developer attention.
 
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Down with the Byzantophile lobby!
 
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DmUa

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God forbid a game make a popular tag fun and interesting to play. Better spread hate around the forum instead. Stay classy.
- popularity and fun are subjective. And some people think that allocating devs work hours on certain tags are unreasonable and that those work hours could be spent better elsewhere.;)
 
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- popularity and fun are subjective. And some people think that allocating devs work hours on certain tags are unreasonable and that those work hours could be spent better elsewhere.;)

Have you seen how many How to do Byzantium threads come after every new patch. Part of running any successful business is knowing what your customers like.
 
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DmUa

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Have you seen how many How to do Byzantium threads come after every new patch. Part of running any successful business is knowing what your customers like.
- have you seen BjornB saying on forum that forum is just a smallish fraction of Pdx users?;) And im not even one of those anti-byzantine people, im just explaining logic behind statements like this.
 
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- popularity and fun are subjective. And some people think that allocating devs work hours on certain tags are unreasonable and that those work hours could be spent better elsewhere.;)
I don't enjoying playing in the HRE, but I welcome improvements there for all players. See, you can be happy for others and support what they enjoy, without being a selfish ass about it :)
 
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nAssailant

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- have you seen BjornB saying on forum that forum is just a smallish fraction of Pdx users?;) And im not even one of those anti-byzantine people, im just explaining logic behind statements like this.

If the forum is just a small sample of Paradox users, then we can expect the larger population to have the same preferences proportionately. By that logic, there must be a pretty decent percentage of people who enjoy playing the Byzantines to want this to be implemented.

Besides, adding in a government type is really easy now, and would only take minutes to mod in. Paradox might as well make it standard in a patch, since the Byzantines are a popular tag. Arguing man-hours is moot, since it would take a single guy much, much less than an hour to give the Byzantines their own unique government type.

Also, shame on you guys using the smilies passive-aggressively. For shame.
 
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DmUa

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I don't enjoying playing in the HRE, but I welcome improvements there for all players. See, you can be happy for others and support what they enjoy, without being a selfish ass about it :)
- 1. comparing importance of HRE to byzantoromania in EU timeframe is... really strange. 2. projecting much, no?

If the forum is just a small sample of Paradox users, then we can expect the larger population to have the same preferences proportionately.

By that logic, there must be a pretty decent percentage of people who enjoy playing the Byzantines to want this to be implemented.
- no we not, what a silly and illogical statement.

Besides, adding in a government type is really easy now, and would only take minutes to mod in. Paradox might as well make it standard in a patch, since the Byzantines are a popular tag. Arguing man-hours is moot, since it would take a single guy much, much less than an hour to give the Byzantines their own unique government type.
- fixing graphical bugs is even easier but it took almost a year to fix siberian tribes and 30 years war DLC is still not fixed.

Also, shame on you guys using the smilies passive-aggressively. For shame.
- just loled, byzantophiles silently pressing disagree buttons and refusing to understand why people could be disagreeing with them, but calling me passive-agressive even thou i stated that i dont care abut byz/anti-byz forum wars, LoL:D
 
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- 1. comparing importance of HRE to byzantoromania in EU timeframe is... really strange. 2. projecting much, no?
I prefer to play in Italy, so no. You're continuing your selfish mindset, where unless all additions to the game are for YOU, YOU don't want them and they are unnecessary. Grow up.
 
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- no we not, what a silly and illogical statement.
It's not illogical. It's the foundation of all statistics. It's also the reason Paradox frequent these forums so much for feedback and suggestions: because what people ask for here is generally well received by their entire fanbase.

- fixing graphical bugs is even easier but it took almost a year to fix siberian tribes and 30 years war DLC is still not fixed.
Fixing graphical bugs isn't "easier" and it's totally different from something that you really only need notepad for.

- just loled, byzantophiles silently pressing disagree buttons and refusing to understand why people could be disagreeing with them, but calling me passive-agressive even thou i stated that i dont care abut byz/anti-byz forum wars, LoL:D

I wasn't calling you passive-aggressive, I was saying that the use of smilies in some of the posts was passive aggressive, including yours. It's not the way they should be used. That, and you posting here seems to contradict your statement a bit.
 
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Just becuaase Byzantium is small and disappears quickly does not mean that it should not be correct. And a Feudal Monarchy is absurdly incorrect.
 
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lol dude, i always saw you in every post complaining about the changes. Is okay, is your opinion =). I prefer what they did there. Since the have implemented the new titles rank of a country, it is obviously that they change the "goverment" to feudal monarchy. Perhaps it was not okay to put it on Feudal Monarchy, since ERE was not like the Western nations. Probably, with the influx of the Crusades, Byzantine Nobility started to create "Feudal Territories" but, theoracally it was still a "central government". At the end of the life of the ERE, the Basileus did not have more power even in those little territories, except in Constantinople. Thats why Morea still survived even when the Ottomans conquer the capital: there was no "royal" power there.

I like that they changed it to Feudal, it represented what happened there: from a Central government to a "Semi-Feudal" government; meanwhile in the west the change was from a Feudal Government to a Central Government.

PS: BTW I am Byzantophile.
 
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