I find reduced stab coast actually pretty neat lategame as it allows you to truce break on the cheap.
- 3
- 1
Byzantine Ideas are garbage.
- Thread starter Timrocks101
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I find reduced stab coast actually pretty neat lategame as it allows you to truce break on the cheap.
Religious ideas is a natural pick for Byzantium due to the synergy of the NI's and dues vault, which means you get even more stab cost reduction from that idea group. So even though the stab cost reduction NI may be a 'filler', you really do 'specialise' in those stab cost reductions that enables that truce breaking playstyle.
- 1
Not quite. Stab reduction is a flat modifier to the base cost. 10% barely makes a dent on the price.
In terms of Byz ideas, religious is very appealing (even more so with the recent changes to DoTF and missionary costs) but they suffer a lot early on from wrong culture and religion, which is to say that going Humanism early with them is more beneficial.
Here is the thing, Ortho is amazing if you can make use of the Metropolitans but for that you need both right culture and religion. Byz culture group is bad and they will expand into both wrong culture and religion. Of course you could, and maybe should, switch to the Levantine culture (in this case religious idea is much stronger).
- 4
- 1
I don't have as much of an issue with Tiers 1-3 its tier 4 that breaks the immersion.
- 1
Devs shouldn't force me to buy another PDX title just to get a fix to an unpopular unit model pack. They should've added those models to Emperor Content pack, and given Greece Byzantiums PP models.
- 3
I must admit, as cursed as Turkish Byzantium is, gameplay-wise it's much more viable than Greek Byzantium. The -2% missionary strength from wrong culture is painful.
- 5
Byzantine ideas have been nerfed a few patches ago. Its true that Byz has a +3 totf which is unique to them but it's kind of crappy I'd prefer a base -1 national unrest over it. Some nations get -2 unrest in their ideas. Being unique does not mean good. Just look at venice.
Out of the top 5 most played nations (it was #3) it has the worst idea set and one of the worst mission trees (ottos are worse). Heck even the top ten most played nations it has dumpster ideas and not a great mission tree.
Players do not pick Byzantium because it has amazing ideas or an amazing mission tree. Its picked due to its historical significance and the desire to restore Rome.
It is better than most of the 500 idea sets but if we compare it to other popular picks it is not great.
You could get it on sale and pretend it's just a skin pack. It's around the same price.
Out of the top 5 most played nations (it was #3) it has the worst idea set and one of the worst mission trees (ottos are worse). Heck even the top ten most played nations it has dumpster ideas and not a great mission tree.
Players do not pick Byzantium because it has amazing ideas or an amazing mission tree. Its picked due to its historical significance and the desire to restore Rome.
It is better than most of the 500 idea sets but if we compare it to other popular picks it is not great.
You could get it on sale and pretend it's just a skin pack. It's around the same price.
- 4
- 1
Some won't like this, but the culture issue is pretty easily fixed as Byz. Just flip to primary Turkish...
- 4
- 1
This. I really like how unique Venice's NI are but they aren't good at all.
+3 Tolerance Own is superior to -1 national unrest when you have the best religion in the game (Orthodox). It is true that being unique does not mean good, however. Byzantium has religious conversion ideas, which is great for expanding into Sunni lands, but it doesn't directly strengthen your nation. Like I already mentioned though, Byzantium NIs is still viable: 5% discipline and the manpower from NI + tree is usable, and 10% Advisor is great.
- 5
- 3
We'll have to disagree on the Totf national unrest discussion.
I think you need unrest reduction where rebellions happen (newly conquered territory). You clearly do not believe having unrest reduction in newly conquered territories is as important as Totf.
- 1
I would put Byzantium In the Tier 2 Group of NI not bad not Amazing they are alright.
ToTF vs Unrest is a late game vs early game debate imho.
It's better to have +3 ToTF in late game when you have multiple missionnaries with +12% conversion strength - meaning you can convert multiple provinces in a few months - than in early game when you need to tank your economy and wait a bunch of years - then deal with rebels - to convert a single province. In early game yeah unrest is better in Anatolia, no question asked.
It's better to have +3 ToTF in late game when you have multiple missionnaries with +12% conversion strength - meaning you can convert multiple provinces in a few months - than in early game when you need to tank your economy and wait a bunch of years - then deal with rebels - to convert a single province. In early game yeah unrest is better in Anatolia, no question asked.
- 3
- 1
I don't really get what people who are complaining want out of the idea set. It has strong stability, conversion and decent military and economic power. It's probably in the top 10% of idea sets in the game. A step below top tier ideas like Yuan, Horde, Ottoman, Mughal, etc, sure, but most nations would kill for Byz ideas.
- 1
- 1
What they need badly is a cultural rework, so they can finally get some ideas / mechanics w/e to "re-greek" Anatolia and / or assimilate/ expel the Turks back into the Steppes.
As someone mentioned the only -10% stab cost is the hot garbage one in the set and I would like to have it changed too (or a 2ndary bonus be tagged on)
Hellenic culture grp wouldn't suck so major if culture actually had anything going for it like it does in M.& Taxes mod
As someone mentioned the only -10% stab cost is the hot garbage one in the set and I would like to have it changed too (or a 2ndary bonus be tagged on)
Hellenic culture grp wouldn't suck so major if culture actually had anything going for it like it does in M.& Taxes mod
- 4
- 4
Base Value: +3
Orthodox: +1
Legitimacy: +1
Byz Traditions: +3
100% Patriarch Autority: -3 unrest
(Devoutness idea from Religious Ideas: +2 if you don't want to deal with the slow conversion rates from conquering the muslims at early/mid game)
-11 or -13 unrest is nothing to scoff at. That's Huge!
Last edited:
- 4
- 1
- 1
more like
It does have one thing you always like on an idea set: Discipline, and the ttf+conversion combo is great, nothing else worthy of praise really
dip rep is never filler, thats the best idea on that set, could have been 2 though
Sure, once the provinces are converted, assuming your conversion rate can keep up with your conquest rate.
It's still inferior to humanist + offensive in regions you can trade company to neutralise the religion and culture penalties. Which is sad, given that the best national ideas in the game to synergise with religion still can't get close to the humanist approach.
- 1
This would be all fine and good if you weren't surrounded by wrong culture everywhere.
See one of the reasons why Islam is so strong is that it is a very big religion group. Ortho on the other hand exists only on Eastern Europe, Balkans and Western Russia. You will invariably have to expand into wrong Culture and wrong religion so your theoretical -13 unrest is unrealistic for the majority of the time.
Yea unfortunately that is one massive downside as those provinces give -2 unrest. But even so, -9 or -11 is still pretty high. Then again you can just accept all those cultures and get rid of the negative modifiers...