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Timrocks101

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There ideas are absolute trash. The only "good" ones are the discipline and missionary strength. I know at the time Byzantium isn't supposed to win at all but when I finally succeed I have to deal with their trash ideas. They should definitely get come core cost reduction since they use to own everywhere around them essentially. Idk I am just brainstorming.
Edit: you all are wrong and Byzantine ideas are poop!
 
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It isn't as bad as other idea sets (Korean).


I do agree that Byzantium ideas are not that great, considering they don't naturally form anything quite readily. Byzantine culture group is also not that good, since it only has one notable member (Greek). However, Byzantium ideas are at least usable thanks to the 5% Discipline and 10% Advisor Cost, and they have a niche as a conversion-oriented nation. They also start with the best religion in the game (Orthodox). Their mission tree also gives permanent 25% Manpower and +2 Tolerance Own & +2% Missionary Strength, which compensates for mediocre NIs and makes them more usable.

CCR is not necessary considering their missions gives perma claims everywhere (CCR is not even the main problem with the idea set). I wouldn't call Byzantium ideas complete garbage, it isn't top tier but not unviable.
 
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Okay so, I'm pretty sure this is a joke, but in case it's not...

3+ ToTF - Great, totally unmatched in any other idea set
-10% Advisor Cost - Decent

-15% Merc Maintenance - Not great since mercs currently suck
+10% Manpower and +5% Goods Produced - Both solid
-10% Stab Cost - Not great
+10% Global Trade Power - Decent
+5% Discipline - Very good
+3% Missionary Strength - almost unrivaled, this is fantastic

+1 Prestige - Good

It all rounds out to a very solid idea set. Sure, not every idea is a total banger, but lots of other good idea sets have a couple bad ideas! They're definitely not "trash".
 
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Okay so, I'm pretty sure this is a joke, but in case it's not...

3+ ToTF - Great, totally unmatched in any other idea set
-10% Advisor Cost - Decent

-15% Merc Maintenance - Not great since mercs currently suck
+10% Manpower and +5% Goods Produced - Both solid
-10% Stab Cost - Not great
+10% Global Trade Power - Decent
+5% Discipline - Very good
+3% Missionary Strength - almost unrivaled, this is fantastic

+1 Prestige - Good

It all rounds out to a very solid idea set. Sure, not every idea is a total banger, but lots of other good idea sets have a couple bad ideas! They're definitely not "trash".
I think you're overrating the manpower / goods produced and the trade power idea. Trade power is useless considering how late it comes, and the Manpower/Goods Produced are both very small modifiers. Regardless Byzantium ideas are still viable and definitely not "trash."
 
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I think you're overrating the manpower / goods produced and the trade power idea. Trade power is useless considering how late it comes, and the Manpower/Goods Produced are both very small modifiers. Regardless Byzantium ideas are still viable and definitely not "trash."

Ever since Mercs were made basically useless, I value any manpower increase idea (and always take quantity every single game). Goods Produced is one of the strongest economic modifiers in the game. Sure, they're both somewhat small, but I still think they're solid.
 
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I would say Byzantine ideas are slightly above average.

One idea giving 10 percent manpower and 5 percent goods produced is rather good when you consider some nation's only get the base 10 percent manpower.

+1 prestige does not seem like much, but it's a great resource for disinheriting bad heirs, placating vassals, and getting same dynasty/PUs.

10 percent trade power is useful considering how many rich nodes you will expand into.

Discipline is always solid.

The mercenary stuff is rather bad.

Stability cost is rather bad, but it does stack with the reduced cost from being orthodox.

The religious ideas are amazing, not only letting you convert very quickly, but with the bonuses from the missions your tolerance of true faith will be so high that new conquered orthodox provinces with have no unrest.

In conclusion, after beating back the Ottomans, Byzantium has potential to be an economic powerhouse, with a reasonably strong army. Furthermore, I think it is possible to do a Orthodox one faith with them.
 
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I don't mind the ideas, I'd much more would prefer an update on BYZ models. They were ugly before, but they now look horrid comparing them with the other unit packs released since Purple Phoenix.

e020910af1546109e78ee7d73e1c8a53--byzantine-history.jpg
 
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I don't mind the ideas, I'd much more would prefer an update on BYZ models. They were ugly before, but they now look horrid comparing them with the other unit packs released since Purple Phoenix.

There is one if you own imperator. Unlikely there will be another way to get it
 
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Let's be honest the -10% stab cost is trash and is just here to fill the slots and balance a bit the NI of some nations. I'd however say that Venice and Genoa suffer more from their god awful ideas than Byzantium which has a very solid religious set
 
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Byzantium has +3 ToTF, being the single nation in the game to have it in its ideas. All other ToTF ideas max out at 2, with some being 1. This means that your Orthodox provinces basically have -5 unrest, since being Orthodox already gives them -2 unrest.

-10% advisor cost is decent early on, but great in the mid-late game where you can stack level 5 advisors to overload yourself with MP.

-15% mercenary maintenance used to be good, but the merc rework made using mercenaries pretty bad, so it's kinda meh now.

+10% manpower is usually a standalone idea by itself, but the +5% goods produced on top of it makes it a very solid use of a idea slot.

+10% tax is filler.

So is -10% stab cost.

+10% global trade power is pretty useful, although it does come kinda late in the idea set.

+5% discipline is great.

Byzantium's +3 missionary strength, akin to its ToTF, is exclusive to it, with the only other way of getting +3% being from religious ideas. Stack Orthodox's +2 missionary strength on top of that, you get a flat +5% missionary strength, without even taking religious ideas. This, along with the ToTF, is what makes Byzantium's idea great. Late-game, you can stack missionary strength to convert non-cored heretic provinces in 3 months, while also maxing ToTF at around 16~18, which along with the unrest modifiers mean you have no unrest on freshly conquered provinces, even without humanist. Another note that Byzantium can get 7 (8? Not sure, it's been a while) missionaries.

+1 prestige is filler, but not useless.

So we have 4 great ideas, 2 decent ones, and 4 fillers. Are their ideas trash? Heck no. If you want to see some real trash ideas, look at Betsimisaraka, Navarra or Genoa.
 
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Nowadays their set is meh. It used to be very good at release when most countries were stuck with either the generic idea set of culture specific ones. Sadly, Byz ideas have never been touched and it shows. All they got were nerfs (I'm pretty sure that they used to have more prestige and that Disc used to be 10% way back when most nations had 10% on their ideas).

Additionally, they are an end-game tag whose missions are good, but also not as good as they used to be as perma claims and perma bonuses have been becoming more common with each passing patch.
 

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Together with permanent modifiers from missions, Byz has (iirc) 5 ToTF and 5% missionary strength, which is absolutely insane. And this has fantastic synergy with orthodox faith (which is already the best religion in the game).
And one of the missions also gives permanent 25% manpower, combined with the 10% from NI that's 35% manpower. A solid boost in times of lackluster mercs.

Not to mention all the permanent claims Byz gets from the mission tree. Granted that's technically not talking about NIs, but you can't really look at these things in a vacuum.

P.S. If you want CCR you can always reform into Rome. That's kind of the "natural" goal of BYZ anyway.
 
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Heck no. If you want to see some real trash ideas, look at Betsimisaraka

This is what an actual trash idea set looks like.

+20% National Sailors
When have you actually run out of sailors? Have you ever had the need, as a nation that starts with more than one port, for more sailors?
-20% Morale Hit When Losing Ship
lol

+20% Garrison Size
Practically only useful as a tradition in Ireland, Japan or the HRE where you're surrounded by OPM's that cannot afford enough troops to siege your capital. Last time I checked Madagascar is not Ireland, Japan or the HRE.

+10% Embargo Efficiency
+15% Privateering Efficiency
lol

-1 Unrest
At least the entire idea set isn't filler ideas. But if the best idea in your set is -1 (not even -2) unrest, that says something.

-0.05 Yearly Autonomy
Filler, but it's at least somewhat useful.

+20% Chance to Capture Enemy Ships
Even the naval edict (which any nation can take) gives +33%.

+1 Legitimacy
Filler

+1 Dip Rep
More filler

-10% Sailor Maintenance
lol

1 decent idea, 3 fillers, and 6 useless ones. You see my point?
 
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You only have these missions and ideas with Purple Phoenix DLC or?
Where to get it? I looked on steam, but I can neither buy it, nor do I already own it (I can't even find it on steam).
 
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their idea set is ok in my opinion. and they have a strong mission tree that gives silly amounts of perma claims on basically the entire eastern half of the mediterranean. could be worse. it's not meant to be a noob friendly OP nation like france, ottos or prussia.

if you know the game enough to survive as byz and beat back the otto, you're past the skill level where you'd need an OP idea set to do well
 
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