Byzantine Empire was the Roman Empire

[Nein]

That confuses me even more, if anything the inverse is true.

 

[ChrisFox]

Go ahead and throw em out, I've got the money, and the time. It's not that I think you're lying, but that I'd like to read some new information that challenges my current understanding.

Academic Search Premier is a really great one, but I don't know how much it costs out side of the university's program.

 

[ChrisFox]

That confuses me even more, if anything the inverse is true.

How? That doesn't make any sense. Look Roman = Byzantine, it is really just that simple. May-be listed as a continuation because it is one? Doesn't mean it is a separate nation, obviously it isn't because it says it isn't later.

 

[Nein]

Where? What I found was this:

The massive cultural and institutional restructuring of the Empire consequent on the loss of territory in the 7th century has been said to have caused a decisive break in east Mediterranean Romanness and that the Byzantine state is subsequently best understood as another successor state rather than a real continuation of the Roman Empire.[60]

Previously it said that people at the time considered it to be Rome, but as I said, I don't find that important unless they say they aren't.

 

[Chlodio]

When Charlemagne/Lous divided the Frankish Empire amongst their various sons/grandsons, I certainly consider the monarchies these sons/grandsons inherited to be separate states. Theodosius was simply the last Roman Emperor to rule over a unified Rome, after his death the split between the ERE/WRE became permanent and so his death can be marked as the end of Rome and the beginning of Rome's successor states.

Go ahead and throw em out, I've got the money, and the time. It's not that I think you're lying, but that I'd like to read some new information that challenges my current understanding.

Charlemagne hold many kingdom titles, in 800 Pope Leo III granted him title emperor title, Carolingian Emperor. Louis the Pious inherited title from Charlemagne and it existed until 924.

 

[ChrisFox]

Where? What I found was this:


Previously it said that people at the time considered it to be Rome, but as I said, I don't find that important unless they say they aren't.

they never said they were not the Roman Empire. And where? In the first paragraph of the wikipedia article you keep referencing!

 

[Nein]

I know, which is why I haven't brought that up until now.

 

[ChrisFox]

I know, which is why I haven't brought that up until now.

You started with references to wikipedia, claiming it states they are two nations, which it actually doesn't if you read it.

 

[Rey]

Charlemagne hold many kingdom titles, in 800 Pope Leo III granted him title emperor title, Carolingian Emperor.

Indeed, a very legitimate move...

 

[Nein]

That's not what we were talking about just 1 post ago.

 

[Tyon]

This absolutely isn't true.

lol before the introduction of the Maniple the Roman Armies used the Phalanx. Also fun information: A Maniple is a phalanx with joints. Be amazed.

Instead, they became a country that even Wikipedia considers Greek.

As for the rest, many things were based on Greece, but many others weren't. Those that are by themselves do not suffice to call both cultures "super similar".

So let me get this straight.
- The people in greece were roman citizens if they werent slaves etc
- 146 years before the fall of the WRE the capital of the United Empire was relocated to Nova Roma/Constantinople
- bonus fun fact: Roman foundation myth tells us that the first Romans were refugees from Troy, so with their return to Asia Minor and Byzantium a city really close to Troy and renaming Byzantium Nova Roma its basically just a return to their home isnt it?
- with this Rome lost all its political significance that was still left, as in not much
- while the WRE deteriorated the ERE didnt
- in 476 Odoacer walks into the palace of Ravenna and... wait wait oh yeah
- in 402 the capital of the WRE was changed to Ravenna, no not from Roma but from Milan which was the capital of the WRE from 286 to 402
where were we...
- in 476 Odoacer walks into the palace of Ravenna and just ends the WRE with his words, the crown gets send to Constantinople, not Rome or even Milan because it was the only place it could really go to, apart from Odoacers head if he wanted to battle the ERE
- after 476 the formerly ERE now Roman Empire still fights the Persians like in the good old days... games are still held in the capital, the senate convenes and does what the Emperor wants, like in the good old days...

- 1000 years later the capital of the Roman Empire gets conquered and the Roman Empire ceased to exist

- a couple of hundred years later seriously butthurt historians come up with funny words because they cant bear the fact that the city of Rome or even Latin were never important to the Roman Empire

 

[Nein]

lol before the introduction of the Maniple the Roman Armies used the Phalanx. Also fun information: A Maniple is a phalanx with joints. Be amazed.

There were also a gazillion things that were either taken from other civilizations or developed in Rome.

So let me get this straight.
- The people in greece were roman citizens if they werent slaves etc
- 146 years before the fall of the WRE the capital of the United Empire was relocated to Nova Roma/Constantinople
- with this Rome lost all its political significance that was still left, as in not much
- while the WRE deteriorated the ERE didnt
- in 476 Odoacer walks into the palace of Ravenna and... wait wait oh yeah
- in 402 the capital of the WRE was changed to Ravenna, no not from Roma but from Milan which was the capital of the WRE from 286 to 402
where were we...
- in 476 Odoacer walks into the palace of Ravenna and just ends the WRE with his words, the crown gets send to Constantinople, not Rome or even Milan because it was the only place it could really go to, apart from Odoacers head if he wanted to battle the ERE
- after 476 the formerly ERE now Roman Empire still fights the Persians like in the good old days... games are still held in the capital, the senate convenes and does what the Emperor wants, like in the good old days...

- 1000 years later the capital of the Roman Empire gets conquered and the Roman Empire ceased to exist

- a couple of hundred years later seriously butthurt historians come up with funny words because they cant bear the fact that the city of Rome or even Latin were never important to the Roman Empire

blah blah blah make your point arguing against what's already been said, not adding new stuff out of nowhere (that comes afterwards).

 

[ChrisFox]

There were also a gazillion things that were either taken from other civilizations or developed in Rome.

The main civilisation that inspired Rome was Greece, it is where they got all their knowledge from. They developed it later yes, but the base was Greek.

blah blah blah make your point arguing against what's already been said, not adding new stuff out of nowhere (that comes afterwards).

Really? You are just going ignore his argument? You are the one making things up out of no-where claiming that Byzantine and Roman Empire are different nations based solely on your opinion of the situation.

 

[Nein]

The main civilisation that inspired Rome was Greece, it is where they got all their knowledge from. They developed it later yes, but the base was Greek.

Not in the military, which is what that reply was aimed at.

Really? You are just going ignore his argument? You are the one making things up out of no-where claiming that Byzantine and Roman Empire are different nations based solely on your opinion of the situation.

I've named plenty of things that changed over time and discussed them later on, you can't just come and say "these other things happened, so you are wrong"

 

[ChrisFox]

Not in the military, which is what that reply was aimed at.



I've named plenty of things that changed over time and discussed them later on, you can't just come and say "these other things happened, so you are wrong"

As I've said, those changes don't magically make it a different nation. The people were still Romans. And Yes, the military was influenced by Greece. Yes, the technology advances, it doesn't make our points less valid.

 

[Chlodio]

From Wikipedia "Throughout the final years of the Western Empire (395–480) the Eastern emperor was considered the senior emperor, and a Western emperor was only legitimate if recognized as such by the Eastern emperor."

That solves this argument, doesn't it?

 

[ChrisFox]

From Wikipedia "Throughout the final years of the Western Empire (395–480) the Eastern emperor was considered the senior emperor, and a Western emperor was only legitimate if recognized as such by the Eastern emperor."

That solves this argument, doesn't it?

If what has already been said isn't solving it than I don't think any-thing will.

 

[Nein]

I've been replying to your arguments so far, I believe.

 

[ChrisFox]

I've been replying to your arguments so far, I believe.

That doesn't mean you are listening to them.

 

[Nein]

Doesn't seem like that to me.

Try again, if you want.