Byzantine cores workaround.

[Ternega]

With even more BYZ cores removed I think it would be worthwhile to consider a solution to deal with the fact that greek orthodox locals would probably be entirely okay with being ruled by Basileus. To deal with it I would propose a simple event that would grant BYZ a core on a province upon conquest if it's a greek orthodox province.

Event should only fire if BYZ is not a subject and owns Constantinople, this will avoid vassal feeding abuse as well as BYZ popping up at random. It may be worthwhile to make Trebizond an exception for this event for flavor reasons. It could also trigger only if BYZ has a claim, if this is considered overpowered.

Full disclosure: I love playing BYZ and this is to some degree just asking for a buff, but I do believe that this makes more sense historically as well as in game play terms than current set up of greeks preferring Catholic/Muslim rulers over Basileus.

On side note: Re establish theme system should really flip Constantinople to Greek Orthodox. Just saying.

 

[Eolath]

Full disclosure: I love playing BYZ and this is to some degree just asking for a buff

More like a compensation. But as Paradox themselves cited the reason for removing Naxos/Corfu/Rhodes as Byzantine cores was to prevent Byzantium from popping up all over the place this event could very well be applied to those very same territories, at the least.

So yeah, good idea!

 

[Y. D. Dandy]

I read one suggestion (fairly recently, though I can't recall where) that as soon as Byzantium is extinguished, Byzantium should lose all cores and Greece should get cores on all Greek territories.

While that might be taking it too far, I like the idea of eliminating Byzantium and giving Greece cores. Perhaps it could work so that Greece gets cores on any Greek-cultured territory that doesn't have a core of a nation with Greek as its primary culture.

 

[magnusvejby]

+1

 

[Bridger15]

I don't get it, why is it acceptable for other nations to pop up after they've been annexed but not Byzantium?

 

[ShiaoPi]

I read one suggestion (fairly recently, though I can't recall where) that as soon as Byzantium is extinguished, Byzantium should lose all cores and Greece should get cores on all Greek territories.

While that might be taking it too far, I like the idea of eliminating Byzantium and giving Greece cores. Perhaps it could work so that Greece gets cores on any Greek-cultured territory that doesn't have a core of a nation with Greek as its primary culture.

I actually really like this suggestion of exchanging Byzantine and Greek cores. It would also fix Greece never appearing and being unable to make the ottos release any nation on the Greek peninsula if you miss the timing on Byzantine cores expiring. Having the primary Tag of Greek culture being nonexistant and without cores is quite silly in the first place imo. Considering the Greek war of independence just outside the timeframe of EUIV and the fact that Greek nationalism, culture and identity were intact throughout the entire Ottoman era I don't think it would be going too far. Especially since after the Greeks regained their independence some thought in the political establishment was also going towards a restoration of the old empire.

Still would not fix Ottos just converting everything to Sunni and the fact that if Greece pops up it is 99% Sunni....but that belongs somewhere else.

 

[Arrowfiend]

I fully support both OP's idea as well as the Byzantium->Greece idea. Make it happen Paradox!

 

[Ternega]

I don't get it, why is it acceptable for other nations to pop up after they've been annexed but not Byzantium?

Ehh.. you see Byzantium in 1444 was a joke. That is to say nobody held much respect for the Empire's authority, even within Constantinople. So realistically speaking BYZ as of right now is overpowered but also misrepresented. And nobody would take BYZ seriously in 1444 to be even Impireum Grecorum, unless they did some serious warring first. So if greek rebels rose up, their leader claiming to be new Emperor wouldn't be taken seriously by anyone, even enemies of Ottos. It's like calling Granada at 1444 Al'Andalus or Tunis - Carthage.

It's a bit bigger issue than just BYZ. Would you call Spain that is reduced to Madrid,"Spain". No they should be stripped of a title and reduced to what they are - a shadow of it former self, maybe revert to Castile or even further. There is no such mechanic in eu4, So there is no difference between 3PM BYZ and CK2 Import 5 Kingdom Empire.

Returning to BYZ tho, one way to more accurately represent them: you could give BYZ 50-75% Autonomy floor nation modifier at the start of the game and give them 20 Legitimacy/-100 prestige. Reduce the modifier incrementally to 50/25/0 as they regain legitimacy and/or prestige. But all this would take too much time for too little gain (there aren't THAT many BYZ players). Maybe in EU5 they could tie local autonomy floor to legitimacy, and not just for BYZ, but that would require helluva lot of thinking, testing and balancing.

 

[grommile]

Maybe in EU5 they could tie local autonomy floor to legitimacy, and not just for BYZ, but that would require helluva lot of thinking, testing and balancing.

Especially given that the player has only slightly more agency with respect to Legitimacy than with respect to getting regencies.