Byz/ERE 769 start - reasons not to renounce iconoclasm?

[pesachyonah]

I've tried the Roman Empire project as the Byzantines a number of times with varying degrees of success. Almost every time, I've allowed my own artistic tastes and personal prejudices govern, and tried to renounce Iconoclasm as soon as possible. I've also never had the patience to go full SPQR as an Orthodox post-schism.

Now I've seen a very good reason to stay Iconoclast posted by Aaronomus in an older thread re having trouble restoring the empire as a catholic in the presence of catholic holy orders who won't be vassalized but who own crucial baronetcies.

Why are you catholic? Start in 769, remain iconoclast (but leave your demesne provinces orthodox), wait until iconoclasm becomes the new orthodoxy, mend the schism as an iconoclast, renounce iconoclasm. Bam.

Now you're the only orthodox realm on Earth, and all of Christendom can be holy warred.

In other words, since catholic holy orders won't and probably by definition can't convert from their new-fangled heresy, you can just Holy War them out of your lands. (Let's leave aside two minor issues here - one, the Catholic Holy orders don't come into play until at least 900, and almost all of my schism-mending has occurred well before then; and two, I would imagine that the longer one waits to renounce, the nastier will be the resulting civil wars.)

There's also the fact that Muslims won't be happy about you embracing icons again (but how much has that malus ever factored into anyone's calculations?)

Any other good reasons to stay Iconoclast?

 

[Unready]

I have one good reason - I can't.
In my current game Bulgarian nomads immediately took Constantinople from Emperor and I was elected on his place and could retake it only after year 900.
Which makes decision to renounce it unusable and I had no intension to do it manually, especially then orthodox remains only small heresy.

 

[Wakizashi]

It's mostly a roleplay choice, I would think. Making an Iconoclast empire and orthodoxy makes for an interesting "what if" game.

Aside from that, I'd personally prefer it out of RL reasons, but that is individual choice of course

 

[Byzantium2000]

Renouncing Iconclasm lets you revoke those strong vassals that didn’t convert, plus once you go Orthodox you can Holy war those nations you made Iconclast if you managed it.

That and ask yourself what did Iconclasm do to The Empire in real life? Help Lose Rome for one.

 

[SurrealGoblin]

Iconoclast Byzantine is probably the easiest start to experiment with multi-religious/multi-cultural empires. One of my most fun games ever was a multi-cultural, multi-religious byzantine->roman empire where I managed to inherit the Arabian Empire and get the Sunni Caliph as a vassal with a bishopric in Constantinople. You don't get religious/cultural revolts in provinces owned by a vassal of that religion and culture. With Born in the Purple/Augustus and Iconoclast the opinion malus with Muslim vassals is manageable.

I really recommend it, especially if you ever get bored with map painting. It draws out parts of the game that don't seem fun or interesting when doing a more typical run. Culture tech becomes really important and what tech you choose to upgrade has actual consequences. Choosing between different focuses becomes difficult (do I want theology to get sympathy for islam, carousing or seduction to make friends, scholarship for some sweet culture tech points or intrigue to knock off those three zealous islamic sultans) Expansion slows, but you have more to do on the home front so it stays fun longer.

 

[Alliegorical]

Hello, 2019 Aaronomus here to tell you that 2014 Aaronomus was a loser. That strat was gamey af. Don't be that guy.