Buying Equipment

[agus92]

OP, I suggest that you change the name of the thread to "Buying equipment (new ideas)" in order to attract the devs into looking this. I say so because this topic has appeared in the past, and it's likely to be overlooked (If Wiz or Podcat now prove me wrong that would make me happy).

 

[inteljoe]

I was just randomly thinking.

Let's say civilian factories generate 2x coin and military factories consume 1x coin (when in production).

Then you can trade in/out resources 1:1 per coin.

With the current mechanism you trade resources for civilian factories. And you can "lend-lease" x% of production for a price and/or for a set amount of time.

You can still keep the in game system but adding an alternative to civilian factories or doing away with civilian factories altogether.

There would be balancing needed, and I'm not sure if resources by themselves should generate a .25 or .50 coin. Basically you wouldn't want countries like the US to be super rich and field a huge amount of military factories. Well beyond any sort of balancing or realism issues. But it could bring some immersion.

 

[Duke Von Hannover]

I think they already said you LL by giving equipment, I just don't think you can directly purchase equipment.

 

[agus92]

I think they already said you LL by giving equipment, I just don't think you can directly purchase equipment.

Not right now. Exactly what we are discussing.

 

[Alexander Suvorov]

I kind of agree, so far as this is a cool idea, although if they were to implement this I would like to see you know if Americans start just selling weapons everywhere then serious repercussions in the next election, as likely would have happened. Or even simply not allow democracies to do this unless there is a certain amount of world tension? They must have some kind of check on that for particular nations as well, because it makes very little sense for people to be selling equipment to countries that were forcibly disarmed by the treaty of Versailles, if they were a party to that treaty.

 

[agus92]

I kind of agree, so far as this is a cool idea, although if they were to implement this I would like to see you know if Americans start just selling weapons everywhere then serious repercussions in the next election, as likely would have happened. Or even simply not allow democracies to do this unless there is a certain amount of world tension? They must have some kind of check on that for particular nations as well, because it makes very little sense for people to be selling equipment to countries that were forcibly disarmed by the treaty of Versailles, if they were a party to that treaty.

I completely agree, restrictions need to be made. I don't think that forbidding democracies in the weapon market makes sense though. Weapon exporters like Sweden or Czechoslovakia were democracies.

I would allow licensing and buying equipment regarding of the relationship of those countries (allowance should range from friendly to ally), and the level of "threat" (or the equivalent in HoI4).

The amount of equipment allowed to sell should depend on the manufacturer's strategic reserves of equipment, that is, exceeded equipment, including old and new. Allowing the sell of 5 to 25% (depending of the relationship) of the strategic reserve sounds good to me.

World tension could definitely be something to factor in. But I would always allow (even if a tiny amount) of selling/licensing, even if WT=0.

Another thing that IMO makes sense: only allow selling of old equipment (where "old" is referenced to the manufacturing country), but instead allow licensing of new equipment.

 

[GsusNSV]

1 fmu/iou or whatever = one month of production by a basic non-upgraded factory

May I add, (little bit late I know.) a factory on 50% efficiency? Because that will be, I believe, the standard efficiency.
Else I think this idea could prove useful. If a good balance is found.

 

[Duke Von Hannover]

You can lend-lease anything from airplanes to tanks, trucks, artillery and rifles. And you can decide if you want to send fixed amounts, or a percentage of your production each month.

So we already know Lendlease is done by sending the completed equipment NOT by sending production capacity (ala hoi3) so transfer of equipment from one country to another is already in the game. Which means even if purchasing of equipment isn't in the base game I can think that it will end up being fairly easy to mod in some way to simulate the transfer of equipment for cold hard cash.

 

[Asfifldjarfi]

May I add, (little bit late I know.) a factory on 50% efficiency? Because that will be, I believe, the standard efficiency.
Else I think this idea could prove useful. If a good balance is found.

Again I would like to point out, that it's simplest to let the efficiency be the efficiency of the producing country, that way, you get less when you are buying new models.

Buy a panther at 22% efficiency vs buying a T-34 at 70% efficiency makes sense, the Panther is newer, and superior, but the T-34 is mass produced and therefore cheaper.

That way, the weapons bought are priced in a simple yet realistic way. Having factory output go to 50% instantly just because it's being exported is just a ticket to gamey exploits.

 

[vota dc]

Maybe in multiplayer you can in some way,
Player A: Lend lease me X and I give you Y resources.

In single player you can't ask for lend lease and also you can't freely choose how to sell stuff, you just put resources on free market.

 

[TexasJaeger]

I still see no harm in in allowing factories or resources to be traded for equipment. If Canada has lots of tungsten and chromium and needs advanced/newer fighter planes from the UK I don't see why you couldn't trade for them based on some common value. Like if it takes a factory a week to build 5 (Made up numbers here) hurricanes and costs a few oil and rubber I could trade the UK for those with 2 civilian factories or an equal number of worth in tungsten and chromium. L
Lend Lease though is not buying equipment. I don't want whatever scraps are left over or whatever another person/computer decides to give me. I want to have equipment that I deem is needed by my military. I still just don't get how this was left out.
The only question I do have is that with lend-lease/trading for factories can I produce whatever they have? Like if as Canada again can I trade the UK for my chromium for their factories and produce Spitfires?

Anyways thanks for all the responses y'all. And have a great Christmas!!!

 

[FUregistration]

In HoI3 you had production under license, in HoI4 this feature is going to be removed?
If not removed, you can just get a production license, then get factories, trade for them all with resources, basically the other nation is selling their equipment to you.

If removed, or if you can't trade military factories, then well, once again all hopes rest on modders.

 

[Sir Garnet]

Extended diplomatic fencing among Brazil, Britain and the US involved British high-handed high seas seizure by the British of German-made arms purchased by Brazil for its army and carried on a Portuguese freighter. The US dangled US supplies of arms and other aid and promotion of Brazil in negotiations and eventually provided them as part of a substantial effort to get Brazil to join the Allies and access to its ports and airfields.

There is definitely an important role among allied or friendly states for some arms traffic, particularly common munitions without any concerns of disclosure of confidential equipment, performance, methods, or tactics that can spread among friends and then foes. Generic weapons and small arms would be more readily traded than heavier items and probably most especially airplanes tanks and warships - the symbol of state power and indeed a potentially controversial issue in some circumstances - particularly if the national military is arguing it is needed in stocks for their own forces (the US Army argued for years against providing any of the torrent of US production to the Brazilians).

Transfer of more up-to-date or special weapons systems is a sensitive issue for the military. Selling advanced equipment, or even obsolete equipment, is also a game balance and anti-exploit consideration with min-maxers (abuse as a relations tool). Unless the project is perfectly generic, the design has more complexity by adding the need to represent the varied situational challenges of introducing and supporting different new equipment, retraining, and integration with existing forces and existing equipment.

 

[panzerzombie]

OP, I suggest that you change the name of the thread to "Buying equipment (new ideas)" in order to attract the devs into looking this. I say so because this topic has appeared in the past, and it's likely to be overlooked (If Wiz or Podcat now prove me wrong that would make me happy).

...aaaaand he could wear a skimpy reindeer suit and wave a bottle of beer^^

 

[Loke]

Yes, I would like the option to buy/sell equipment(I am not talking about LL).

The Psilanderaffair - Sweden purchasing from Italy during wartime 1940 - 4 destroyers, 4 motortorpedoboats, 216 aircraft among other warmaterial for 250 million SKR.

 

[rafan]

How i would i do this trade.
I assume that we "buy" factory to produce certain model of equipment at static 50% eficiency. (unchengable by resarch, events and another efects)

1.
1 military factory = 1 shipyard = 1 civilian factory = 4 resourses

Gives allot of trade posibilities but is hard to balance if we start changing cost of buying factories.
2.
1 military factory = x resourses
1 shipyard = x resourses
civilian factory = 4 resourses

Resourses start working as money. This system is more elastic and can be easier to balance by diferenating resourses cost of factories.

 

[agus92]

1 Military factory should cost several civilian ones.

The price has to consider not only the intrinsec value (the opportunity cost), something like 2 civ per mil, but the diplomatic value, wich needs to be substantially higher (the seller is doing a huge favour to the buyer), something like 4 civ per mil.

So, IMO, the cost of buying 1 military factory worth of equipmepment should be of 6 civilian factories.
On the other hand, licensing equipment should cost 3-4 civilian factories.

Those high prices serve as well to help balance the system.

 

[Sir Garnet]

Who is doing a favor depends on what is produced. For items with a strategy of long production runs, being able to sell surplus equipment (which might be due to substitution of upgraded or new equipment, or simply an active arms export industry) is to their benefit as well as the buyer. If such equipment is fairly generic at that time (magazine bolt action rifles, for example), it's a favor to the seller in that he can usefully dispose of surplus. If preparing for war and selling (or lend leasing) equipment puts you behind your build-up schedule on complex equipment with long tool-up and build times, then it may indeed be a huge favor.

In coming up with simple rules relating to this, it is probably best that any error come down on the side of high prices for recipients, modest volumes, and to be less restrictive on purchases by those countries without other good options due to tech, small of inefficient industrial base, or time pressure (threat, or tension). One may refer back to the case of Brazil where there was great pressure to acquire equipment.