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november

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Danielos said:
I took a look at the forum at WAW, and they all seems to think that World at War is better than HoI2! So now we have two excellent WW2 grand strategic wargames coming in a few months!!

Edit: I just read the FAQ for WAW, and I can´t say it sounds any better than HoI2, just more abstracted and "dumbed-down": fewer units, no experience, no leaders, no build-up, no diplomacy, no minors. I think i stick to HoI2...

It should not be compared to HOI2.

Also, complex/detail should not be equated to good. I’ve played many, many games where it was obvious the designer obsessed over the OOB but the game lacked playability--bad games.

The game play in WAW is very good--filled with strategic considerations and options at every step.

The focus is entirely on competitive game play.
 

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november said:
In my first game as SU I thought I was doing fine until I ran out of supplies and everything--and I mean everything--ground to a halt. gg

Like they always say - amateurs think about their tactics, professionals think about their logistics. :)
 
Jan 25, 2005
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november said:
It should not be compared to HOI2.

Also, complex/detail should not be equated to good. I’ve played many, many games where it was obvious the designer obsessed over the OOB but the game lacked playability--bad games.

I agree, I remember an old game called "Second Front", ironically by Gary Grigsby, that I found virtually unplayable because of the insane detail and micromanagement.

But in the case of HoI2, I think it need more depth and complexity to improve gameplay, not less. How is the AI in WAW? Is it better than HoI2?
 

RisingSun

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Brasidas said:
Rising Sun,

You're still playing MoO3? It took me a year to permanently retire it. If only Emerich had either narrowed the outline or had been given another year...

Did that user-mod improve it to playability? or do you actually enjoy it with the last patch before it was abandoned?

Yes i play it time to time when i get tired of playing others... The latest patch plus several mod plugins made it very nice plus i did some customize option (Race Creation) to add terraforming abilities so it take up some points if you want them.. by around turn 100-150 all my planets in my home system were terraform to sweetspots and if im lucky i could get paradise, some of these planets were HUGE giving me over 130k pop.

The game itsnt that bad, i like it and its a challange after they made that patch.
 

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Danielos said:
But in the case of HoI2, I think it need more depth and complexity to improve gameplay, not less. How is the AI in WAW? Is it better than HoI2?


The AI has been quite competitive in the limited time that I have spent with the game.
 

Graymane

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Danielos said:
For those of you who have tried WAW:

Is it any point to buy it if you already has and like HoI2?

Yes. The games are totally different.

What are the main strengths of WAW?

WaW is a conceptually simpler game and is turn-based. The earliest scenario is 1940 with 4 turns per year. You can finish the game in a night and it can be quite challenging (at least for me). There are fewer options all around (fewer unit types, upgrades are automatic, no leaders, no diplo, etc, just a basic focus on combat and logistics).

What features in WAW is better/new compared to HoI2?

Not sure this is a good way to compare cause the games are so different. So far, WaW seems "logical" to me. There are some unit balance issues, but the AI seems to respond a whole lot better to what you are actually doing. For example, Scotland starts with a fighter unit. I moved the fighter to England leaving Scotland without air cover. Next turn, Germany sends a bunch of Strat bombers to Scotland :)

Keeping convoys up and running and building the right ship types (light fleets) and researching the correct techs to deal with u-boats is a hell of a lot of fun and the AI will punish you if you don't do it.

What are the main weaknesses of WAW?

It has a huge memory leak and I get a lot of CTDs if I play for more than a few hours. Basically every hour or so I quit out and then start it again. Unit balance probably needs some work. Air power is huge. You can literally wipe out everything on the ground with air. On the other hand, you can build lots of counters for air. Basically, everything has a decent counter to it, you just can't focus on building one thing alone.

Another weakness is that the UI is kind of arcadish and the text is hard to read on a lot of the screens. Sometimes info is really hard to find. Unit production is a serious pain in the ass. Units are built in specific provinces that have factories, so you have to scroll through your lists to build stuff. It is more accurate I guess and leads to some strategy (if you want carriers in the Pacific, you better be building them there, for example).

What features in WAW is worse/missing in WAW compared to HoI2?

None really. The games are built around different underlying concepts (i.e., what each game chooses to abstract, the other generally focuses on, so hard to compare side by side). WaW is really much more "grand strategy" than is HOI. HOI is much more "what if" and latitude and more detailed at a lot of levels. There are far fewer provinces and stuff in WaW and it is closer to looking like a Risk map or other games like that (the UK is 2 provinces, for example). WaW is also much more "streamlined" along a historical path as far as events and DoWs go.
 

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EnPeaSea said:
The AI has been quite competitive in the limited time that I have spent with the game.

Agreed. I think with a conceptually simpler game and fewer provinces and fewer countries and such, it is much easier to make a competitive AI. The AI also seems to respond to what the players are doing (although it does tend to overreact to human players). My first game as the Western Allies, I finally managed a Normandy invasion and the AI moved 75% of its forces over to France :)

If you leave convoys untended, the AI will go smack them. If you leave places with weakness, like no AA or Fighter cover, in come the bombers, etc. In practice, this seems to work out better than the HOI way of "fixed" AI via files. It would be nice if there was a way to merge those 2 concepts. For example, you seem to have to tell HOI to specifically garrison provinces and it doesn't pay attention to what you are doing. In WaW, it WILL garrison provinces in relation to what you are building (if you are going strong air power, it tries to build stronger air defenses via research, AA or fighters). It also seems to respond to what you are researching. If I research my light fleets (destroyers basically) to do anti-sub stuff, the AI will respond with better subs, etc.
 

Derek Pullem

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Graymane said:
It has a huge memory leak and I get a lot of CTDs if I play for more than a few hours. Basically every hour or so I quit out and then start it again. Unit balance probably needs some work. Air power is huge. You can literally wipe out everything on the ground with air. On the other hand, you can build lots of counters for air. Basically, everything has a decent counter to it, you just can't focus on building one thing alone.

Agree with all of this but really must emphasise the sloppy memory leak. It cripples my 512 MB P4 laptop. I was shocked to read the specs (after I downloaded it :( ) which recommended 1 GB of memory. For this game that is taking the piss. As is the 32 / recommended 128 MB video card.

Having said that it is a fun game - but can't see me spending alot of PBEM time on it - its just not detailed enough.
 

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Derek Pullem said:
Agree with all of this but really must emphasise the sloppy memory leak. It cripples my 512 MB P4 laptop. I was shocked to read the specs (after I downloaded it :( ) which recommended 1 GB of memory. For this game that is taking the piss. As is the 32 / recommended 128 MB video card.

Having said that it is a fun game - but can't see me spending alot of PBEM time on it - its just not detailed enough.


The system requirments do seem out of control for what is essentially a computer board game. Have you tried using the low visual setting for your lap top? I hear it gives a decent boost in performance.
 

RisingSun

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Brasidas said:
Sounds like RisingSun's the guy to ask. He's playing mods that weren't around when I threw in the towel.

Well i check around and see if i can find that link.. be awhile since i was there, like 1-2yrs. Unfort my secondary HD have failed or crashed so all my backup are gone. Unless i can figure it out, every time i click on drive d: it would ask me "do i wish to format it?" so i havent and i dont wanna do it.

Dunno how this happen been trying to figure out how to repair it, rather not buying any softwares that repair it or gizmos. Is there any web sites that has free shareware possible to repair the HDs to recovery lost files?