just started as gelre,utretch and Friesland every time Burgundy warns me .. what a pain how am I meant to form Netherlands?
Burgundy ..you been warned
- Thread starter ringworm
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get a strong ally, expand east in german territory to become stronger. attack when burgundy is being crushed by france. its really not that difficult.
you can still declare war on countries which dont border burgundy. And you should be able to ally france just fine. Just dont wait too long because the burgundian inheritance will fire and that might happen while you are at war with it
Wait for Burgundy to go to war with someone bigger. AI usually doesn't join warning wars when they are busy with someone else. At least it worked for me as Utrh. You could also restart and hope they don't warn you asap. In one of my Gelre games they warned after like 2 years from start and then I was a bit bigger already and allied to France.
I waited until they were at war with France and then attacked them directly, also, it's still well possible to go to war, a warning is ultimately no different than a regency in how it blocks you, easy to get around.
DO NOT TAKE A MIL IDEA, until you absolutely have to. Hitting the breakpoints before everyone else is key to success in the region.
In my Gelre game they ultimately became my vassal which I fed from all the french territories and in the end France became my vassal, that's about when I got bored.
DO NOT TAKE A MIL IDEA, until you absolutely have to. Hitting the breakpoints before everyone else is key to success in the region.
In my Gelre game they ultimately became my vassal which I fed from all the french territories and in the end France became my vassal, that's about when I got bored.
France as an ally will usually work against Burgundy as a Dutch minor. However the French also have their eyes fixed on the low countries so don't trust them too much. Usually Burgundy wont act up on their warnings, but using France as a beating stick should work regardless.
It's a bit trickier as Gelre or Friesland, but as Utrecht you can day 1 DOW Gelre with your reconquest CB and annex them. You'll want to start fabricating on Friesland with your second diplomat, and so (unless something goes wrong) you can ally Munster and DOW Friesland as soon as you're done with Gelre. Then you'll want to work on France, ally them, and use them to help you kill Burgundy.
I took Holland, Zeeland, and Antwerpen off of Burgundy multiple times with no allies, and as a OPM.
It's a lot easier if you have France/Austria or both as allies, but so long as one or both is beating Burgundy up, you better get in on the action before the inheritance fires. It's easier than you think. Yes, ironman.
It's a lot easier if you have France/Austria or both as allies, but so long as one or both is beating Burgundy up, you better get in on the action before the inheritance fires. It's easier than you think. Yes, ironman.
You can also avoid being warned by warning them first, no? Or has the system changed?
Changed.
You can usually take one of the other two minors before getting warned, especially as Utrecht.
As either Gelre or Friesland it is inadvisable to start any wars before getting your alliance with Austria/France due to the AE cost of HRE provinces. It's quite possible to take all 6 Dutch provinces in a short period of time, but you will get dogpiled by every HRE prince in the north for doing it. Instead, take nothing until your war with Burgundy. You can grab Holland, Zeeland and Antwerpen, but taking Breda as well, or instead of Antwerpen tends to turn things badly.
Friesland is an Administrative Republic, so you can quite happily core both Holland and Zeeland, releasing Flanders from Antwerpen.
Alternately, you can fabricate on Friesland as the Hansa while allying Austria, then release Holland from Burgundy. This will give you control of two large trade nodes early in the game, and is a fantastic alternative to the OPM variation. AE is an issue here as well, and I find diplomatic ideas are a good first choice, followed by a military idea (Defensive, Plutocratic) and then Exploration.
You can usually take one of the other two minors before getting warned, especially as Utrecht.
As either Gelre or Friesland it is inadvisable to start any wars before getting your alliance with Austria/France due to the AE cost of HRE provinces. It's quite possible to take all 6 Dutch provinces in a short period of time, but you will get dogpiled by every HRE prince in the north for doing it. Instead, take nothing until your war with Burgundy. You can grab Holland, Zeeland and Antwerpen, but taking Breda as well, or instead of Antwerpen tends to turn things badly.
Friesland is an Administrative Republic, so you can quite happily core both Holland and Zeeland, releasing Flanders from Antwerpen.
Alternately, you can fabricate on Friesland as the Hansa while allying Austria, then release Holland from Burgundy. This will give you control of two large trade nodes early in the game, and is a fantastic alternative to the OPM variation. AE is an issue here as well, and I find diplomatic ideas are a good first choice, followed by a military idea (Defensive, Plutocratic) and then Exploration.