Burgundy and its weak economy

[Bibor]

Yes, BrokenRIfle, but what you're trying to do is fit an organized sport of "roughly equals" like a pro marathon into a set of rules that is more akin to having a thousand people doing everyday commute on foot. You can't just complain that the random pick you selected has hangover or asthma so it can't run as well as a professional athlete.

That's what bbq is trying to say as well. If you want a fair sport, pick competitors that are roughly even.

I'd argue for a truly competitive session, custom nations (or existing nations) should be tailored exactly for MP purposes, with fine balancing made for economic, political and military factors and it would still take months (and perhaps even years) to make these adjusted nations "even".

 

[pttaylor]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are the PUs coded as if they started on 11 Nov 1444? Wouldn't a really simple solution be to have them 'start' at a date well before game start (at the historical start of the unions, which I think was more than 50 years prior to game start) so that the player can integrate at least some of them in the first few years?
ETA: This same thing could maybe apply to all vassals and PU juniors at game start, for consistency? though that might make Denmark or Aragon OP...

 

[BrokenRifle]

Bibor its not about even, i think you missunderstand there i had no problems with burgundy's eco before but after the nerf to Austria you cannot really do anything against france + castile even with the english forces. and frankly i think the complaint is valid, burgundy and the HRE needs some flavor, which asia and the middle east has already gotten tons of now, and in regards with custom nations. IF all players had to start in the same region area id agree it would be more even, if not i honestly wouldn't agree. also, let's not try to use esports or sports logic in general. it really isen't valid, sounds good but no.


@pttaylor valid point but as you pointed out yourself it could have problems but i havent actually started after 1444 before so i honestly cant really answer that.

 

[pttaylor]

Perhaps I phrased things poorly: I meant to suggest having the PUs coded as having started in 1350 or whatever, so in the 1444 start one can integrating from day 1. The cost might make integrating all of them incorrect (as opposed to waiting for inheritance, for example), but integrating even one would be quite a difference.

 

[gia257]

I always see burgundy beating the crap out of france (sp).

however they end up annexed anyway

 

[jdavis86]

Ironically enough in the new intro dialogue, at least for France, Duke Philip is described as the richest man in Europe .

 

[Orkonkel]

Considering that Duke Philip has four separate treasures at the start of the game and at least three trade fleets in the English channel, he probably is the richest man in Europe.

Duke Philip =/= Burgundy.

EDIT:
Some patches ago, Burgundy owned all its lands and France had a vassal swarm. This was for some reason reversed, which I think made Burgundy more potent in warfare but less likely to form new alliances, with France going the opposite way.

 

[kakatua]

I made some Burgundy tries this week and everything was fine. PUs attached ALL THE TIME to my 1k leaderless army.
In MP diplomacy is variable, sometimes England ally France, others pack out of Europe and watch the game...etc, so it is irrelevant.
In a 1v1 France vs Burgundy scenario in 1448(tech 4) Burgundy wins:

France
1. More manpower than Burgundy, but much less than the combined nations.
2. Far less manpower recovery.
3. Low income to its development due to a combination of weird trade nodes and autonomy

Burgundy
1. Low income(can sustain just 1 advisor at full FL)
2. PUs that will loan to win the war for you.
3. A bigger combined army.
4. PUs for some reason keep in tech.

If time passes, France will get full manpower(47k), lower autonomy and fix estates situation.
If England sells everything, then France gains ~120 dev at 0 autonomy and will roll around.

 

[Nunn45]

Burgundy in MP is usually placed to do one of two things, Gank France with other nations or go the Dutch route.
As far as ive seen over the years its well suited to those roles as is, or any other wacky ideas a player can have.