Burgundian Inheritance

[Sunspawn]

Do we really need it? The event, I mean? I know that historically, such an event happened - but it was really just the logical outcome of the stars aligning and not something that would happen if France was not strong enough to enforce it's taking of the duchy of Burgundy. IMO, the proper thing in that situation would be either some kind of interregnum or a succession war, with France almost assured as a participant.

 

[blackchoas]

From a game balance side I like, in my experience if the Burgundian Inheritance doesn't fire France will just take of the Burgundian land and Austria will never stand a chance against the BBB but when Austria inherits the Low Countries that gives them enough wealth and power to fight off France and keep them out of the HRE at least for a little while

 

[WeissRaben]

Do we really need it? The event, I mean? I know that historically, such an event happened - but it was really just the logical outcome of the stars aligning and not something that would happen if France was not strong enough to enforce it's taking of the duchy of Burgundy. IMO, the proper thing in that situation would be either some kind of interregnum or a succession war, with France almost assured as a participant.

The event is needed because it was a weird occurrence, coming from the fact that de jure Burgundy was still a French appanage; on the other hand, it should actually trigger when the ruler dies with no heir or a weakish heir, only put the nation in PU with the chosen nation, and most of all, have a chance for them to contest the fact.

 

[lolciokuba]

Yeah I do think its a good event in game. Especially since Europe kinda had to deal with the outcome of Charles The Bold's death for centuries afterwards since most Major wars were caused by powers competing for territories of his inheritance.

 

[Artyom87]

I think austria only becomes weaker with getting the inheritance

it becomes more prone to waging wars, and wars against enemies like France and it loses them

austria's manpower is not nearly sufficient to hold out all these wars against both france and other HRE defensive wars

this is just my experience from ai bonus/hard



THe OP has a good point, that the burgundian inheritance was just a random, unlikely, outcome, but the game holds it as almost destiny.

My argument for the burgundian inheritance to stay the way it is, is for historical sense. Having burgundy there in the 17th-18th century just seems weird, especially if it gets a chance to eat a piece of france.

Also I think burgundy has some of the sickest military ideas with the mercenaries. If you stack those with admin, you should be much better off than france would ever be, by the start of 16th century

edit: hence in MP i'd imagine a burgundy player would eat france, even without the ideas, but with allies

 

[Sunspawn]

So we should have ridiculous events to balance against France - which is generally impossible, since you either let France live and blob or kill it with napalm.

 

[WeissRaben]

Honestly, France being Napoleonic France in relative power from day 1 is annoying and gives a lot of problems on its own.

 

[atwix]

its widely abused by players. Therefore, nerf it!

 

[Viperswhip]

Wow, ya, I mean, Austria gets it 80% of the time if the player doesn't get involved in that region, and other HRE members about 15% and Burugundy survives only to be eaten by France and Austria anyway, but far more by France about 5%.

The only game I've seen Burgundy thrive was from a time before I knew about the Inheritance and allied them as Castile, eventually I vassalized what was left of France and then conquered all of Burgundy.

Basically they are not long for this world, just like in reality. So what's the problem exactly? You can keep Austria from getting it by 100% them and releasing Styria. Castile can get it if that happens and they have an RM with Burgundy and Burgundy hasn't done something annoying like RM Savoy or some other 3 province HRE member they border.

In the end though, it hurts everyone but the player who gets it because it automatically pits you against France, like even if you are allied to them, they will rival you two seconds after the event because you have plenty of territory they want.

It's a death knell to Austria half the time and every other AI the rest of the time.

For bonus points you can beat France, release Burgundy in the peace deal, beat them up and vassalize them and take them over twice in the same game

 

[ThuderLizard2]

It doesn't seem to fire as often in 1.8 as before. I played several Austria games recently and it only fired in 1 out of 5.

 

[Mikalos]

If it stopped being "an event fires and suddenly france has nobody worth caring about as its eastern neighbor" it'd be way better

 

[Freudia]

The event is needed because it was a weird occurrence, coming from the fact that de jure Burgundy was still a French appanage; on the other hand, it should actually trigger when the ruler dies with no heir or a weakish heir, only put the nation in PU with the chosen nation, and most of all, have a chance for them to contest the fact.

Agreed. I think the event is necessary, but its current implementation is very flawed, especially in regards to how it fires. Most of my complaints about the event would be solved if it actually fired with reasonable requirements (ie Burgundian ruler dies with no heir), instead of just "Well, Burgundy's losing a war! Time to kill the entire nation of Burgundy!"

 

[heliostellar]

The event is needed because it was a weird occurrence, coming from the fact that de jure Burgundy was still a French appanage; on the other hand, it should actually trigger when the ruler dies with no heir or a weakish heir, only put the nation in PU with the chosen nation, and most of all, have a chance for them to contest the fact.

I would agree with this. Insta-integrate is not desirable.

 

[mandapandamonia]

Needed or not, I'd like to at least see it fire in my game once. 270-ish hours of playtime in and about the only thing I've ever seen happen to Burgundy is it slowly getting whittled away by its neighbors.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

Honestly, France being Napoleonic France in relative power from day 1 is annoying and gives a lot of problems on its own.

Napoleonic France's only real advantage was not caring about all the international rules that stopped France from blobbing. Since people want to blob themselves and only complain about coalitions, those rules are not going to be added or simulated.

 

[FloatingOrb]

I love the burgundian inheritence. A strong austria and France tend to keep eachother busy long enough for weaker HRE members (IE me) to gain a power base strong enough to resist the BBB. France seems to always get the land anyway, so it only helps AUstria fight France, and anything that hinders France is a plus in my book.