Burgundian Inheritance

[kpaw]

Playing my first game in a while.

There used to be a trick where you could vassalize France as Burgundy, and inherit everyone for nothing. A bit cheese, but good fun. I should have known this would be fixed, but I didn't think that much about it before starting this run.

You can't do that any more. I still wanted my free inheritance so I went with the union under Austria. Easy to break out of it, I thought. I was so wrong about how the incident works...

Back to 1444 it is!

 

[makaramus]

paradox:Ohhhh.... I see you are cheesing my game again... *punches you into netherlands*

 

[Slayen]

Huh..... one would think that that particular option would have France actually existing being a requirement but apparently not.

 

[makaramus]

Huh..... one would think that that particular option would have France actually existing being a requirement but apparently not.

it does, he vassalized france but he annexed it instantly. Its a bug because event triggers while france is still existing. Since it was still existing option to become its vassal exists and does nothing other than free annexing all vassals
it seems like they decided to troll people that was abusing this bug instead of removing the option. You can pick it still but it relases france as independent nation and makes you his vassal after relasing all of it + france region.

here is the old order:
1)Trigger event and decide the options
2)Annex all vassals(including france)
3)Become junior partner of france wich doesn't exist.

here is the new order:

1)Trigger event and decide the options
2)Annex all vassals(including france)
3)Relase france and give all lands inside france region to it
3)Beome junior partner of france, WICH NOW EXISTS!

 

[kpaw]

Huh..... one would think that that particular option would have France actually existing being a requirement but apparently not.

You would think so. I certainly did! Even if France did exist, it seems really silly for the AI to choose that option unless France is quite powerful. That's probably too subtle for the AI, and it's just a random choice by percentage.

 

[kpaw]

it does, he vassalized france but he annexed it instantly. Its a bug because event triggers while france is still existing. Since it was still existing option to become its vassal exists and does nothing other than free annexing all vassals
it seems like they decided to troll people that was abusing this bug instead of removing the option. You can pick it still but it relases france as independent nation and makes you his vassal after relasing all of it + france region.

here is the old order:
1)Trigger event and decide the options
2)Annex all vassals(including france)
3)Become junior partner of france wich doesn't exist.

here is the new order:

1)Trigger event and decide the options
2)Annex all vassals(including france)
3)Relase france and give all lands inside france region to it
3)Beome junior partner of france, WICH NOW EXISTS!

That's not what happened. France definitely did not exist at this time. In the initial Burgundian Succession event, the choice to enter a union under France appears to no longer exist if France is a Burdgundian subject (or anyone's subject?). I chose the union under Austria, which also causes Burgundy to inherit all vassals and junior partners.

This was the decision that the Emperor makes in the Imperial Incident, which comes a year after the original choice by Burgundy. The Emperor can either release all Burgundian Land as members of the Empire, release all French land to France, or maintain the union over Burgundy.

Actually now that I think about it more, I am struggling to see how player Burgundy should navigate the succession crisis. Is the only choice to remain independent now? Because the union under France loses all of your French land, and the union under the Emperor leaves you liable to lose all of your land as well.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

That's not what happened. France definitely did not exist at this time. In the initial Burgundian Succession event, the choice to enter a union under France appears to no longer exist if France is a Burdgundian subject (or anyone's subject?). I chose the union under Austria, which also causes Burgundy to inherit all vassals and junior partners.

This was the decision that the Emperor makes in the Imperial Incident, which comes a year after the original choice by Burgundy. The Emperor can either release all Burgundian Land as members of the Empire, release all French land to France, or maintain the union over Burgundy.

Actually now that I think about it more, I am struggling to see how player Burgundy should navigate the succession crisis. Is the only choice to remain independent now? Because the union under France loses all of your French land, and the union under the Emperor leaves you liable to lose all of your land as well.

Pu with France only loses you nevers I thought?

 

[-Duiker-]

If you want to avoid RNG then staying independent is the only option. The danger there is that the Emperor does not demand the lowlands and then you are stuck with your PUs and need to integrate them properly.

 

[kpaw]

Pu with France only loses you nevers I thought?

You're right I am talking rubbish. France gains *cores* on all land owned by Burgundy in the France region, you don't lose the land.

So I guess the union under France is still best? Assuming you have sufficiently weakened them by that point. If I do another Burgundy run I'll have to just remember not to subjugate France!

If you want to avoid RNG then staying independent is the only option. The danger there is that the Emperor does not demand the lowlands and then you are stuck with your PUs and need to integrate them properly.

It just seems such a waste to take the independence option. Th free inheritances are huge, especially if you took over some or all of the French vassals through your mission tree. Charles has a trash diplo rating so integrating/annexing all those subjects in the usual way is all but impossible, considering mana cost, relation damage with other subjects, diplo rep hit etc.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

You're right I am talking rubbish. France gains *cores* on all land owned by Burgundy in the France region, you don't lose the land.

So I guess the union under France is still best? Assuming you have sufficiently weakened them by that point. If I do another Burgundy run I'll have to just remember not to subjugate France!


It just seems such a waste to take the independence option. Th free inheritances are huge, especially if you took over some or all of the French vassals through your mission tree. Charles has a trash diplo rating so integrating/annexing all those subjects in the usual way is all but impossible, considering mana cost, relation damage with other subjects, diplo rep hit etc.

Going under france is best because easy castile/aragon and Austria independence support, possibly even ottos if stars align

 

[-Duiker-]

Going under france is best because easy castile/aragon and Austria independence support, possibly even ottos if stars align

Only if France does not agree to give up the lowlands if the Emperor demands them, which depends upon RNG again.

 

[makaramus]

That's not what happened. France definitely did not exist at this time. In the initial Burgundian Succession event, the choice to enter a union under France appears to no longer exist if France is a Burdgundian subject (or anyone's subject?). I chose the union under Austria, which also causes Burgundy to inherit all vassals and junior partners.

This was the decision that the Emperor makes in the Imperial Incident, which comes a year after the original choice by Burgundy. The Emperor can either release all Burgundian Land as members of the Empire, release all French land to France, or maintain the union over Burgundy.

Actually now that I think about it more, I am struggling to see how player Burgundy should navigate the succession crisis. Is the only choice to remain independent now? Because the union under France loses all of your French land, and the union under the Emperor leaves you liable to lose all of your land as well.

oh nvm then I thought you attempted to fall in union with your vassal france misunderstood you then sry

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Only if France does not agree to give up the lowlands if the Emperor demands them, which depends upon RNG again.

France will be too strong to accept that if you had a good early game

 

[-Duiker-]

France will be too strong to accept that if you had a good early game

Not sure if I follow. If you had a good early game you'll be twice as strong as France, probably GP #2, & have 100% liberty desire. The best strategy for them is to weaken you by giving in to the emperor.

Edit: grammar

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Not sure if I follow. If you had a good early game you'll be twice as strong as France, probably GP #2, & have 100% liberty desire. The best strategy for them is to weaken you by giving in to the emperor.

Edit: grammar

Because as their pu you buff france

 

[Nostalgium]

Only if France does not agree to give up the lowlands if the Emperor demands them, which depends upon RNG again.

Last time I went under France and they did, I had my cores on the Lowlands still, so after I'd gained my independence, it was an easy enough matter to Reconquest it all.

 

[makaramus]

Last time I went under France and they did, I had my cores on the Lowlands still, so after I'd gained my independence, it was an easy enough matter to Reconquest it all.

Yea france letting lowlands go means literally nothing. Austria shattering you hurts since you end up very small but france letting netherlands go is not bad since aggresive expansion is reduced a lot and you conquer it for free anyway. They were not your cores from start anyway so you just integrate them for money and man power instead of diplo points